Is Cal/Non-Cal important enough to divide?

yes some cals put it first...like the apostle Paul;

After Eph1 paul gives eph 2:8-9 as a consequence....mandy....was he being contentious or just praising God for His grace and mercy???


Then when some of the jews suggested a synergistic gospel in galatians ...he did severly go after them...thank You very much.

 

mandym.......as if we do not see you posting calvinsm is error:laugh:

I think if you will look....you will see a direct correlation....non cal attempts to attack cal.......cal reacts with scripture...non cal makes a snide remark...and flees...

In this thread You posted the idea that cals do not have the correct teaching on election.....which is laughable.

Sure they left...they wanted to hear the whole gospel, according to the scriptures....not one that the pastor has taken a scissor to.

 

Tom sounds as if your church has mature believers in it ....so it can work.
They have taken the time to understand what others believe..instead of false caricatures.....that is half the battle.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

JB...
We have not seen you offer much in the way of correction.....but would welcome any biblical based correction. I do not think you can do it but time will tell:type:

 

Hello Willis.
Keep in mind that I left the first church so as not to cause a split Willis!
there were about ten of us who left when we saw the others were going in a different direction. The Pastor did not want to see us go....but we were too young and fired up to stay. we could not be content with mushy generic sermonettes that danced around the clear truth.

Willis.....I believe that when anyone keeps studying the bible and sees these truths....it is very difficult to remain in a place that is committed to avoid truth.......seekingtruth says they would not want any cal's to be members......no right minded cal would want to be around that kind of church for many reasons.....no election, predestination, answered prayer{ which presupposes God has ordained believing prayer as a good work.}
covenant, providence.....not much left except the little awana program,and maybe a gospel puppet show,or gospel clown to tell jokes.

I was just answering 12strings willis.....not inflaming anything.
Willis ...I am old enough i see problems in many churches...cal. or non.
I was in the second church for about two years before some of the members even knew the pastor was teaching the DoG. We will have that breakfast sometime Willis.....I can tell you some stories that will make your hair curl up like a poodle:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Well Willis.....It is not a secret that I believe that calvinism is the truth of scripture. I do not think it is milk...but meat.
Several attack it as if it is"man made"...but they error here Willis. Willis.....I do not think it is two even views...take your pick.
I believe it like we believe in the trinity.....it is not like trinity/ no trinity is a toss up.
Some of those who oppose it now...will in time come to hold it. Some are believers who need to study more, some think they have studied it enough...so they do not even look at it anymore. Some who attack it will wind up in hell. All things are still on the table Willis.

Hey Willis....in the .....what about his holiness thread....did you answer my post #43?????

 

I didn't fail to answer earlier. I've been away and just found the question.

If I am forced to answer with only one word, it is Yes.

But if I'm allowed to explain, my answer is Ephesians 2:8-10

 

There may be some prideful Calvinists out there, but I've never met one. I have been a believer for 65 years and a DoG for 40 years. I've never known of a prideful Calvinist.

That would negate a basic premise of Calvinism and Baptist doctrine--which is, that none of us is deserving of God's grace.

In my view, prideful Calvinist is an oxymoron. So is prideful Baptist. So is prideful Christian.

Or it should be.

 

Brother, I have no problem with him telling me how he believes things. We all come to our conclusions the same way; through prayer and study. The problem I have is that there is a sense of superiority in being a Calvinist. It is not his post, but the manner in which is was posted. Just because I am anti-Calvinist, doesn't make me feel superior to those who are Calvinists. It is the "eliteist" attitude that bother me. It is like some feel they have a better "line of communication" with the Father than the rest of do.

 

Brother, what a wonderful, precious post!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

Perhaps much to some people's surprise I'll have to say that it is not that important.

By "that important" I mean so much so that we cannot work and worship together in the Kingdom as cals and non-cals.

It only becomes that important when either position is taken to the extreme. When the Arminian so wishes to defend free will that he redefines God's attributes or when the Calvinist so wishes to defend God's omniscience and sovereignty that he accuses God of evil or rejects very agressive evangelistic efforts- then we cannot work together or worship together.

I can worship and work without problem with an Arminian or non-cal who believes God knew the world would fall before he made the world.

I cannot worship and work with a Calvinist who is in any way anti-evangelistic or makes God out to be evil.

So I can work and worship with either a Calvinist or a non-calvinist who does not push his/her theology to either extreme but I can work with NEITHER who does push either theology to the extreme.

 

Thank you for this very clear post. This is what I was trying to say, but failed in doing so. You took the words right out of my mouth....err, keyboard....:D

 

Does God will that everyone should repent and that none should perish? If that is his will, what prevents it from being accomplished?

 

That is not what I was referring to. The post in question didn't say merely more than once, but many times.

Also, look at your General Baptist reference again. "Finally lost" does not imply or mean being saved and lost innumerable times, but rather turning away without coming back.

I will not comment on Wesley here; I was talking about the General Baptists who predate Wesley.

 

You said:

Arminian or? I apologise if General Baptist follow Classical Arminiamism and not Wesleyan Arminianism (which is way more common in modern churches)

But your post included Arminians in general, that's why i posted the difference between the two in my posts.

Looks like we both made mistakes, and i apologise for mine.

But either way, the point of my original post was that SBC nor me are Arminian, and the only Baptists that I know of that are Arminian are the General Baptist and the Freewill Baptist. And no matter if they believe in only one shot at salvation or many, if they believe that salvation can be lost then they are wrong.

Not every Christian is an Arminian or Calvinist!

Some of us are just regular.

John

 

Only in your opinion. :)

 

No its a fact.

 

Icon, you had me until here. :)

 

Lets be honest Willis, you are going to find elitist attitudes across the board & with every group. I was watching an old rerun of the movie, "A River Runs Through It" Where the Character of a Presbyterian Pastor is talking to his two sons on a fishing trip & the conversation turns to the oldest sons girlfriend. The father asks the son if the girl is a Christian & the son shyly admits that she is a Methodist.......Tom Skerret (the father & Presby Pastor) commentary is " Oh Methodist....they are Baptists with Shoes." :laugh: Get my point? When I was a Catholic we thought protestants were inferior; when I became a Presbyterian, then Catholics became inferior & as a Baptist & a DoG Believer, I get flack from multiple sides. Guess it goes with the territory. In summation, I still have to go back to my catholic roots to recall Francis of Assisi & his prayer,

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love.
Where there is injury, pardon.
Where there is doubt, faith.
Where there is despair, hope.
Where there is darkness, light.
Where there is sadness, joy.

O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled, as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.

Amen. :godisgood:

 

Good prayer, and with that attitude the answer to the OP should be no.

 

Of course, providing that people have that attitude to begin with. What about SBC churches that close their doors to Calvinists?