Give me a break, even Calvinists admit Calvin's greatest influence was Augustine.
Is Calvisnism Gnostic
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Revmitchell, Feb 16, 2013.
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
There is no doubt that Augustine at one time in his life was a Gnostic. From Encyclopedia Britannica:
And another from the same passage is an idea that also is straight from Gnosticism and fits into Calvin's theology on the total depravity of man.
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
No one in this thread has denied that Austine was once a Gnostic or that Austine influenced Calvinism. Not one single time.
But it is a formal fallacy to suggest that those facts automatically lead to the idea that any part of Calvinism is Gnostic. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
By the way Augustine came to eventually teach against Manichaeism
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
So even the mistaken use of the formal fallacy suggesting that because Augustine was once influenced by Gnosticism means that Calvinism has some foundation in Gnosticism is utterly refuted and completely discredited.
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Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Gnostic belief that humans are totally depraved as the material is evil while the spirit is good.
Augustine, who was a Gnostic for a period of time, fits the idea into his theology. He had to make a few adjustments for it to fit into his Christian belief system.
Calvin, greatly influenced by Augustine, makes "total depravity" one of his five lynch-pins of his theology. -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Give us sources showing a disconnect between the three. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Second I have disproven any chance of a connection with a sited source which you have conveniently overlooked. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Yes, he jettisoned some Gnostic beliefs. But not all.
It is too late here tonight to respond to your "prove that is what he did". However you are 8 hours behind me, so surely you can research it for yourself in that time. It is all there if you will but look. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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And is it clear from my scholarly source that what Augustine preached against specifically was Manichaeism, the very thing you hold that influenced him. But like a true liberal you speak in generalities rather than specifics so as not to be accountable to much. It does not fly with me. -
Augustine is the source of most errors in the Western churches, Protestant and Catholic.
To deny that he was influenced by his pagan/Manichaen past is to ignore history and fact. -
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo
Second paragraph confirms what we have been saying. Anyone familiar with Augustine knows this. -
That Augustine was influenced by his past of Manichaesm and Neoplatonism cannot be refuted, nor can his influence on Calvin or RC theology. People can deny all they want, but they can't change the facts. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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You have been given sources. If you want to deny the truth, you argue against historical evidence, not against me.
Everyone from interested laypeople to scholars knows that Augustine's theology was influenced by Manichaesm and Neoplatonism, and this in turn was highly influential in the RCC and in Calvinism.
Most of the errors in Western Christian thought can be traced to Augustine.
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