Featured Is Faith "requirement" to be saved by God?

Reply to 12 strings

Hi 12 Strings, God sets the bar and invites us to meet that standard. Then He credits those that actually meet the standard in His eyes. So His choice is based on His evaluation, and His criteria, but it is guided by His promise of eternal life to those who believe from the heart.

Lets say a person goes all in for Christ, holding nothing back, and committing to follow Christ no matter the cost from that point forward. Did he save himself? Nope, he is not saved. How did he get saved? By automatically entering the body of Christ? Nope. God puts those He chooses into the body of Christ, saving them based on crediting their faith as righteousness. So salvation does not depend upon the man that wills, his faith is worthless, a filthy rag. But God sovereignly credits his faith as righteousness and places them in Christ. Can he boast he saved himself? Nope. Can he boast in the merit of his faith? Nope.

Calvinism is simply unbiblical, turning our trust in Christ as an impossibility, yet the two soils of Matthew 13 did trust in Christ to some degree. One poster claimed the second and third soils were saved because they sprang up. But eternal life is not "temporary." Next we have someone who claims a person can have no fruit yet be saved. Certainly no visible fruit to others is possible, but no fruit in the eyes of God? No chance. It is impossible to bear fruit without being saved, indwelt, in Christ and Christ in us. Therefore, an unfruitful person, in God's eyes would be an unsaved person, one that does not "abide in Christ." John 15.

 

The scriptures in fact show that believers will bear different amount of fruit and be rewarded accordingly.

1 Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Notice in verse 12 that Paul is speaking of men who build upon the foundation of Christ. These persons are saved, Jesus Christ is their foundation. But not all believers produce the same fruit. Some are distracted by the world, some fall away in persecution, while a few endure and produce much fruit. The fruit of any tree produces itself, the fruit of a Christian is more Christians. If you witness and teach others they will be saved, this cannot be taken away and will remain.

Only the way side soil was lost in the parable of the sower. The thorny ground and the stony ground "sprang up" which is life. The scriptures directly say they believed.

Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away

The stony ground believed, they are saved, but when temptation or persecution arises they fall away and produce no fruit.

If your view is correct, then no person can have assurance of salvation. But the scriptures clearly say those that believe have passed from death to life and shall not come into condemnation.

Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

If your view is correct, then no one can be said to have passed from death to life, and this could not be known until a person endures to the end. But the scriptures say we can know we are the sons of God NOW.

1 Jhn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is

In your view, no one could know they are a son of God NOW. The scriptures say whosoever believes shall be saved, in your view this is not necessarily true. In your view no man can know if he is saved.

 

In all the time I have been on this Forum I do not believe that I have read that anyone who believe the Doctrine of Grace insist that Faith and Repentance are not a part of Salvation. In fact on more than one occasion I have posted the following as essential facets of salvation:

1. Election
2. Regeneration and
3. Union with Jesus Christ
4. Effectual Calling
5. Conversion
5a. Saving Faith
5b. Repentance
6. Pardon
7. Justification [by faith]
8. Adoption
9. Sanctification
10. Perseverance
11. Assurance
12. Glorification

I have been off the Forum periodically so if I am wrong I am sure some good Arminian brother or sister will point out my error.

 

Well, here you go;

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=78144

 

Well, here you go;

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=78144

Winman can you please tell me what the above rant has to do with anything I said in my post #63.

 

Hello Willis,

Three agrees.....:thumbs:

 

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Faith is required for salvation according to scripture so it is not a heresy.

 

If faith is a work before regeneration, then it is a work after regeneration. If you consider faith a work, then you are saved by works whether you believe faith occurs before or after regeneration.

 

You said that you were not aware of anyone who believes in the Doctrines of Grace that believes faith is not necessary for salvation, so I directed you to a thread where at this present time a hyper-Calvinist is arguing that faith is a work. Actually, he's kind of confused on what he believes if you keep reading.

If faith is a work before regeneration, then it is also a work after regeneration. If you believe faith is a work, then you believe a person is saved by works.

 

The post you quoted said nothing in regard to my statement. I sure am not going to read the entire thread looking for whatever it is you want me to see.

 

Well, I'll help you out a little. Here is one of that poster's statements.

There, I have shown you someone who claims to believe the Doctrines of Grace who denies that faith is necessary.

Now, to be fair, in other posts he claims it is necessary. He can't quite seem to make up his mind.

 

It really doesn't matter if regeneration precedes faith or if faith precedes regeneration, if faith is a work, then a man is saved by works.

And why does a man who is regenerated need to place faith in Christ anyway? If he is born again, spiritually alive, then why does he need to believe in Jesus?

If all that is needed to see the kingdom of God is to be regenerated, born again, then why is it necessary for a regenerated person to believe?

 

From Galatians 3:23 we were kept under the law, 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster unto Christ, 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin,

Therefore sin which brings death, had dominion over one because one was under the law, the schoolmaster unto Christ.

Romans 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Death that was brought on him by our sin being laid on him.
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Question???

What was the grace that released one from being under the law that mirrored the sin that brought the death?

Is the answer not, The resurrection from the dead of Jesus Christ?


For by grace are ye saved through the faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

If Grace was the resurrection; What was the Faith?



Gal 3:22-25 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before the faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that the faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Why? V27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. We are under Grace. The resurrected Jesus Christ.



BTW Titus 3:5-7 says the very same thing as the above.

 

Didn't you once make a suggestion to me to shorten my posts? And then you drop this bomb on me? Come on Brother Lar!!! :laugh:

Okay, one deep breath, and then I'm jumping in!!

Okay, look @ the sequence of this passage. Jesus came to His own, correct? Who were His own? The Jews, and they rejected Him. Now, those who did receive Him, He gave them the power to become the sons of God, even those who believed upon His name. They became the sons of God after they received Jesus, or better yet, believed Jesus was/is the Messiah prophesied for centuries. When one receives Christ they are then born again/born from above. One does not have life outside of Jesus Christ.

Why could they not hear Jesus' word, or even understand? They were judicially(sp?) hardened because of their rebellion against God's commands. I gave you the Malachi references(in another thread a while back) and how they had profained His altar with polluted sacrifices. They had even made the office of the High Priest to where they were in for so long, and then "out you go". They had turned it into a political office, so-to-speak.

Sheep is a hyperbole, and not literal sheep. Now, if you have to be sheared every so often, and you graze in the meadow, and go "baa", they maybe you are...:laugh:. Again, because of their continual rebellion, they were hardened. If they had known that Jesus was/is the prophesied Messiah, they would have not slain Him, thus, the OT prophecies would not have been fulfilled concerning Him.

How do you know you have passed from death unto life? Because you love the Brethern. The Grace of God is way too powerful to not know something about it when it shines in your life. I knew the very moment a mountain of sin was placed upon me, and I know when it was cast into the depths of the sea, and no longer is brought up before me by Him.

I just "cut and pasted" my last paragraph to answer this: How do you know you have passed from death unto life? Because you love the Brethern. The Grace of God is way too powerful to not know something about it when it shines in your life. I knew the very moment a mountain of sin was placed upon me, and I know when it was cast into the depths of the sea, and no longer is brought up before me by Him.

If dead men can do nothing, then they can't even rebel. Show me where a corpse can do anything. Spiritual death is seperation, and not a "flatlined" soul. When God saves someone, they are born from above. God is above all, and when He borns them anew, it comes down from above, therefore, we are born from above.

 

Now that I responded to the post in it's entirety the first time, I want to address this one segment all by itself.


Isaiah 55:1-3

1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.



John 5:24-29

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Something just struck out @ me as I was reading this. Look closely @ verses 28 & 29. All the dead that are in their graves shall hear His voice, & will come forth, and be judged and given their sentences. This right here shows you that all the dead will hear His sweet voice, and not just those who died in Christ.

John 20:30,31

30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


Hearing and believing is what brings life, not life bringing hearing and believing.

 

Ushering in the hallelujah chorus!!!

No it's not.

This was in reference to the Jews that rebuked Jesus, because they were hardened by God due to their continual rebellion against His commands, and His Prophets He sent to them.

When God speaks, they hear. Hearing is what brings life, and not life brings hearing.

Well, explain John 5 and how the dead in the grave hear when Jesus calls them. They are dead in the grave, and yet they will hear Him when He calls them from the grave. God's voice is so powerful, that the dead hear Him while they are yet dead; dead meaning spiritually seperated from Him because of their sins.

 

Simple Willis....the dead hear because he gives them life......

the man with the withered hand,,,stretched it out...because God gave him the ability....


dead men.....need life Willis.

So???? they still physically heard...but could not spiritually hear:wavey:

 

Wrong again, Brother. The spiritually dead hear, and when they believe, then they are given life.

Agree 100%.

Agreed, but your definitions are wrong. Spiritual death equates to being seperated from God due to our sins. Being Spiritually alive equates to be in communion with God because He has given us of His Spirit.

I don't disagree with this either.


Now, it's time to put this baby to bed.


John 5:24-29

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


So, please explain to this "country bumpkin" how those who are resurrected to the resurrection of damnation are able to hear Jesus' voice and then resurrected, and them spiritually dead. I don't want a link to a "sermon audio", no catcheism, creed, or confession. I don't want Pink's, Calvin's, MacArthur's, Piper's, Luther's, Bunyan's, Spurgeon's, et al, opinion, but from the Word of God how these dead bodies will hear and come forth, and them dead. You stated that they must have life to hear. Let's see you prove how this is possible.

 

So, those who died in their sins, they are given life to come forth, and then they are slayed again when they are cast into the lake of fire??

Jesus did state, Blessed are they who have part in the first resurrection, on such the second death hath no power" you know? The ones who have part in the 1st resurrection are those who are saved, and those who have their part in the second death(lake of fire BTW), are those who are cast into the lake of fire, along with death, hell, satan and his minions. So they are given life to hear Jesus' voice to come forth, and then they die again? Anutter and WOW.........

I misread this the first time, and just caught this statement a few seconds ago.

So, those who resurrected to the resurrection of damnation are given life to come forth? Wow! Lemme say this one more time.....WOW!!!

 

False charge #1, if a person is not automatically saved upon trusting in Christ, no one can have assurance of salvation. God puts us in Christ, therefore the premise of automatic salvation is unbiblical.
Our assurance, our confidence, in salvation stems from our faith. We look at our lives and apprehend the work of the Holy Spirit in us. Blessed assurance Jesus is mine, oh what a foretaste of glory divine.

Eternal life is not temporary, but lots of folks claim they commit to Christ, but when the going gets tough, they fall away. They went out from us because they were not of us. The second and third soils were never saved, and Jesus will one day say them, depart from Me, I never knew you.

False charge #2, i.e. no one can be said to have passed from death to life. However, the truth is everyone God puts in Christ passes from being spiritually dead, separated from God, to being made alive together with Christ.

False charge #3, i.e no one can know they are saved until they endure to the end. But the truth is once a person is placed in Christ and sealed with the Holy Spirit, they are eternally saved from that moment.
Once actually saved, its settled. (OASIS)

False charge #4, if we are not automatically saved, we can not be sure we are saved. But the truth is Matthew 7 describes folks who thought they were saved but in fact had never been saved. Our assurance come not from our public profession of faith, but from our testing ourselves to see if we are of the faith. My life changed, and I believe the Holy Spirit guides me and helps me live more like Christ. I take communion without fear.