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Featured Is Faith "requirement" to be saved by God?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, May 1, 2012.

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  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Winman you have posed some good questions. The answers to all are found in Scripture. I believe that if you exercise due diligence you can find the answers and thus convince yourself!
     
  2. Servants_Heart

    Servants_Heart New Member

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    I am new to the BB and must admit that I am old fashion and still believe the best commentary on the Bible is the Bible. If salvation were not by grace through faith and that it was solely based on who God chooses to be saved then would that not mean that a great amount of Scripture was unnecessary and incorrect. I still believe in the "whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Acts 2:21) Thus by saying "whosoever" it gives me a choice to accept or reject salvation. If it were something that I had no choice about then Christ already said what he would do in II Peter 3:9, "The Lord...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." That is His will. Now he allows me to accept Him or reject Him....of which I accepted Him based on His grace through faith. He provided the gift, I just accepted it THROUGH FAITH.
     
  3. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    But I want you to answer the questions. I do not believe regeneration precedes faith, as no man can be spiritually alive until his sins are forgiven, and no one has their sins forgiven until they first believe. So I believe faith MUST precede regeneration.

    I am asking you, a person who believes a person must be regenerated and born again before they can have the ability to believe, why must they believe on Jesus if they have already been born again and made spiritually alive? Seems pretty unnecessary if you ask me.

    It is your view, you explain it.
     
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I have answered them Winman, ad nauseam and with Scripture yet you reject them. So have others. Whether you want to believe that Salvation is the work of God or the work of Winman is up to you. The only way that you will change your understanding is through diligent study of Scripture.

    Now it is a fact, the Doctrine of Grace is consistent with all Scripture, including all those that talk about faith, belief, repentance, whosoever will, all Scripture. The Arminian doctrine of Salvation is not consistent with all of Scripture and that is a fact.
     
  5. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Total non-answer.

    Show me just one verse that says a person has to be regenerated in order to have the ability to believe. Surely such an important doctrine is clearly stated in scripture, but I have never seen it. Maybe you can help me out and show me this scripture.

    I don't want something vague where you have to read into it, I want scripture that directly says a person must be regenerated to have the ability to believe.

    So, let's see it.
     
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    You would not believe it so it is pointless to show it again and again and again, ad infinitum.
     
  7. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    You have never shown it once.
     
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I don't know the proper theological term, but God must open your eyes to see Him spiritually before you can believe. The apostles were a perfect example of this. They walked, talked, lived, and learned with Him for 3 years and they never did "get it". Not until He opened their eyes through the power of the Holy Spirit. The scriptures say after His resurrection, He breathed on them and they received the Holy Spirit. It wasn't until this time that they understood who He was and why He came. The 2 people who walked with Jesus on the road to Emmaus are another example. Mary at the tomb is another. Jesus can be standing right in front of you but you will not know who He is until He decides to reveal Himself to you. It's at this point that you are able to believe the truth about Him and be saved. He doesn't reveal Himself to everybody. I don't know why. Only God does.
     
  9. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    .

    So are you saying the apostles were all lost prior to Him breathing on them?
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Welcome to BB.....
    You left out a couple of words in this passage....that show who the passage refers to.
    All Christians believe that whosoever will may come.
    Some also believe that no one seeks God....no...not one.

    That leaves it up to God.:thumbs:
     
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The scripture refers to this as quickening.....or regeneration.
     
  12. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Amy.G

    I told you that you were good!:applause::smilewinkgrin::applause:
     
  13. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Yes and no. Be back later. I've got church.
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Yes OR a true Christian Sister to us.....and not to be trifled with.
     
  15. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    This is utterly false. There are numerous scriptures that say the disciples and literally thousands of Jews believed on Jesus before the Holy Spirit was given.

    Jhn 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

    This was written at the beginning of Jesus's ministry, a full three years before Jesus rose from the dead and breathed on his disciples. It says they believed on him.

    Jhn 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

    Many of the Samaritans believed on Jesus not because of any miracle they had personally witnessed, but because of the testimony of the woman at the well. The scriptures say they believed on Jesus.

    Jhn 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

    Jhn 10:42 And many believed on him there.

    I could show you MANY other scriptures besides these. Many people believed on Jesus before he was glorified and the Holy Spirit given.

    Amy, you are being misled.
     
  16. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    FAITH, WHAT IS IT?

    HAT IS THIS FAITH concerning which it is said, "By grace are ye saved, through faith?" There are many descriptions of faith; but almost all the definitions I have met with have made me understand it less than I did before I saw them. The Negro said, when he read the chapter, that he would confound it; and it is very likely that he did so, though he meant to expound it. We may explain faith till nobody understands it. I hope I shall not be guilty of that fault. Faith is the simplest of all things, and perhaps because of its simplicity it is the more difficult to explain.
    What is faith? It is made up of three things—knowledge, belief, and trust. Knowledge comes first. "How shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?" I want to be informed of a fact before I can possibly believe it. "Faith cometh by hearing"; we must first hear, in order that we may know what is to be believed. "They that know thy name shall put their trust in thee." A measure of knowledge is essential to faith; hence the importance of getting knowledge. "Incline your ear, and come unto me; hear, and your soul shall live." Such was the word of the ancient prophet, and it is the word of the gospel still. Search the Scriptures and learn what the Holy Spirit teacheth concerning Christ and His salvation. Seek to know God: "For he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." May the Holy Spirit give you the spirit of knowledge, and of the fear of the Lord! Know the gospel: know what the good news is, how it talks of free forgiveness, and of change of heart, of adoption into the family of God, and of countless other blessings. Know especially Christ Jesus the Son of God, the Saviour of men, united to us by His human nature, and yet one with God; and thus able to act as Mediator between God and man, able to lay His hand upon both, and to be the connecting link between the sinner and the Judge of all the earth. Endeavour to know more and more of Christ Jesus. Endeavour especially to know the doctrine of the sacrifice of Christ; for the point upon which saving faith mainly fixes itself is this— "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them." Know that Jesus was "made a curse for us, as it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree." Drink deep of the doctrine of the substitutionary work of Christ; for therein lies the sweetest possible comfort to the guilty sons of men, since the Lord "made him to be sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." Faith begins with knowledge.
    The mind goes on to believe that these things are true. The soul believes that God is, and that He hears the cries of sincere hearts; that the gospel is from God; that justification by faith is the grand truth which God hath revealed in these last days by His Spirit more clearly than before. Then the heart believes that Jesus is verily and in truth our God and Saviour, the Redeemer of men, the Prophet, Priest, and King of His people. All this is accepted as sure truth, not to be called in question. I pray that you may at once come to this. Get firmly to believe that "the blood of Jesus Christ, God's dear Son, cleanseth us from all sin"; that His sacrifice is complete and fully accepted of God on man's behalf, so that he that believeth on Jesus is not condemned. Believe these truths as you believe any other statements; for the difference between common faith and saving faith lies mainly in the subjects upon which it is exercised. Believe the witness of God just as you believe the testimony of your own father or friend. "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater."
    So far you have made an advance toward faith; only one more ingredient is needed to complete it, which is trust. Commit yourself to the merciful God; rest your hope on the gracious gospel; trust your soul on the dying and living Saviour; wash away your sins in the atoning blood; accept His perfect righteousness, and all is well. Trust is the lifeblood of faith; there is no saving faith without it. The Puritans were accustomed to explain faith by the word "recumbency." It meant leaning upon a thing. Lean with all your weight upon Christ. It would be a better illustration still if I said, fall at full length, and lie on the Rock of Ages. Cast yourself upon Jesus; rest in Him; commit yourself to Him. That done, you have exercised saving faith. Faith is not a blind thing; for faith begins with knowledge. It is not a speculative thing; for faith believes facts of which it is sure. It is not an unpractical, dreamy thing; for faith trusts, and stakes its destiny upon the truth of revelation. That is one way of describing what faith is.
    Let me try again. Faith is believing that Christ is what He is said to be, and that He will do what He has promised to do, and then to expect this of Him. The Scriptures speak of Jesus Christ as being God, God is human flesh; as being perfect in His character; as being made of a sin-offering on our behalf; as bearing our sins in His own body on the tree. The Scripture speaks of Him as having finished transgression, made an end of sin, and brought in everlasting righteousness. The sacred records further tell us that He "rose again from the dead," that He "ever liveth to make intercession for us," that He has gone up into the glory, and has taken possession of Heaven on the behalf of His people, and that He will shortly come again "to judge the world in righteousness, and his people with equity." We are most firmly to believe that it is even so; for this is the testimony of God the Father when He said, "This is my beloved Son; hear ye him." This also is testified by God the Holy Spirit; for the Spirit has borne witness to Christ, both in the inspired Word and by divers miracles, and by His working in the hearts of men. We are to believe this testimony to be true.
    Faith also believes that Christ will do what He has promised; that since He has promised to cast out none that come to Him, it is certain that He will not cast us out if we come to Him. Faith believes that since Jesus said, "The water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everasting life, it must be true; and if we get this living Water from Christ it will abide in us, and will well up within us in streams of holy life. Whatever Christ has promised to do He will do, and we must believe this, so as to look for pardon, justification, preservation, and eternal glory from His hands, according as He has promised them to believers in Him.
    Then comes the next necessary step. Jesus is what He is said to be, Jesus will do what He says He will do; therefore we must each one trust Him, saying, "He will be to me what He says He is, and He will do to me what He has promised to do; I leave myself in the hands of Him who is appointed to save, that He may save me. I rest upon His promise that He will do even as He has said." This is a saving faith, and he that hath it hath everlasting life. Whatever his dangers and difficulties, whatever his darkness and depression, whatever his infirmities and sins, he that believeth thus on Christ Jesus is not condemned, and shall never come into condemnation.
    May that explanation be of some service! I trust it may be used by the Spirit of God to direct my reader into immediate peace. "Be not afraid; only believe." Trust, and be at rest.
    My fear is lest the reader should rest content with understanding what is to be done, and yet never do it. Better the poorest real faith actually at work, than the best ideal of it left in the region of speculation. The great matter is to believe on the Lord Jesus at once. Never mind distinctions and definitions. A hungry man eats though he does not understand the composition of his food, the anatomy of his mouth, or the process of digestion: he lives because he eats. Another far more clever person understands thoroughly the science of nutrition; but if he does not eat he will die, with all his knowledge. There are, no doubt, many at this hour in Hell who understood the doctrine of faith, but did not believe. On the other hand, not one who has trusted in the Lord Jesus has ever been cast out, though he may never have been able intelligently to define his faith. Oh dear reader, receive the Lord Jesus into your soul, and you shall live forever! "He that believeth in Him hath everlasting life."

    C.H Spurgeon

    When I first came to Christ I was told to just come the way I was.

    Faith is a noun, like Jesus Himself can be a noun, His word where our faith comes from. Jesus came from above we who are born through Him and His word we our born from above not because of us, but Him living in us and when He lives in us His word lives in us.

    Belief and trust is a verb an action that comes from us not from God, God doesn't need to believe or trust in Himself.

    The trust and belief God is asking from us is like a child trust who knows nothing but trust in his parents. It is the parents job to teach them to open their eyes just as it is the work of God through Jesus to open our eyes to understand the scripture.

    The veil is not removed until they turn to Jesus and He removes it. Anyone turns to Jesus He removes it.

    Romans 4 :
    4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
     
    #96 psalms109:31, May 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2012
  17. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    They believed He was the Messiah and expected Him to defeat Rome by force and return the kingdom to Israel. But they did not understand that He was fulfilling scripture by being God in the flesh and dying on a cross for sins and rising on the third day to sit at the right hand of the Father, having reconciled sinners to God. Their understanding of Him was incomplete. It was not until He rose again and sent the Holy Spirit that they would be able to understand the full meaning of Christ's work.
     
  18. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    As on a merry go round, round and round and round we go. Would anyone care to look from a different angle.

    YLT Matt 1:20 And on his thinking of these things, lo, a messenger of the Lord in a dream appeared to him, saying, `Joseph, son of David, thou mayest not fear to receive Mary thy wife, for that which in her was begotten [is] of the Holy Spirit,

    At the time the angel spoke this to Joseph was Jesus Christ being generated in Mary his mother and was this the work of God the Father through God the Holy Spirit? In other words was it the Spirit Holy from God that was the life source in the egg of the virgin Mary?

    Is this to the knowledge of all, the only named or unnamed person to ever come into this world in this manner?


    Just trying to get off this merry go round.
     
  19. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I don't know what this post has to do with the OP, but if you want off the merry go round, just move on to a different thread.
     
  20. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    This post is just way too long. Could you give us the Cliff Notes? :)
     
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