Not true at all. In fact you disagree with what the Bible says;
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Your argument here is with God. God wins you loose.
God doesn't wish!
God is not willing that any should perrish. This does not mean they don't perrish. It means that men can and do choose who they follow after. Some men choose darkness by the following of man. Others choose the Light by following Christ. We can choose life ever lasting, instead of death.
MB
Is God Sovereign?
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Nov 25, 2017.
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2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Your argument is with"not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
Now look who's running. You've run out of excuses and have no explanation.
MB -
First off we have to put it in context. Read all of verses 1-9.
The first thing we notice is that the subject of the passage is not salvation but the second coming of Christ. Peter is explaining the reason for the delay in Christ’s second coming. He is still coming and will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night (v. 10).
The second thing to notice is that the verse in question (v. 9) speaks of the will of God. “God is not willing” for something to happen.
Theologians have long recognized that there are three ways in which the will of God is spoken of in Scripture.
There is what is called the Sovereign Decretive Will. This refers to the will by which God brings to pass whatsoever He decrees. This is something that ALWAYS happens. Nothing can thwart this will. (Isa. 46:10, 11).
Secondly, there is the Preceptive Will of God. This is God’s will revealed in His law, commandments or precepts. As the course of human history reveals, people have the power to break these commandments and do so every day. It is important to state though that, although men have the power to break these precepts, they do not have the right to do so. His creatures are under obligation to obey all His commandments and will face His judgment for not doing so.
Thirdly, we have God’s Will of Disposition. This will describes God’s attitude. It defines what is pleasing to Him. For example, God takes no delight in the death of the wicked, yet He most surely wills or decrees the death of the wicked. God’s ultimate delight is in His own holiness and righteousness. When He judges the world, He delights in the vindication of His own righteousness and justice, yet He is not gleeful in a vindictive sense toward those who receive His judgment. God is pleased when we find our pleasure in obedience. He is sorely displeased when we are disobedient.
Look at 2 Peter 3:9 and see that what we have here is God expressing His will of disposition. The text is saying that God is not wishing or desiring to see any human being perish (in one sense), even though that is exactly what will happen if a person does not come to repentance. The fact that people perish is not something that makes God happy. He would rather it never happened. But to uphold His holiness and justice, He must punish rebellious sinners by sending them to an eternity in hell.
So, God is not willing that anyone perish, but His Holiness and Justice demand that sin have a price. He is not happy that they do, but He must punish sinners.
(See Understanding 2 Peter 3:9 by John Samson (Guest Post) | Monergism) -
What an impotent God some people have. -
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The major, inescapable issue for them is that not all people are even presented with the options. In fact, most of mankind has not. How many people in China own a Bible? How many churches are there in the Middle East? Their claim that God draws all men equally runs into these realities, which I can't get anyone to address. -
Tell about how you are now sinless and don't sin anymore.
Or is his wishes overruled by your wishes? -
"A customer can have a car painted any color he wants as long as it’s black" --Henry Ford.
Calvinism's idea of Sovereignty allows for only one color, Calvinism.
They don't believe God is Sovereign at all but trapped behind their limitations.
Example God is too stupid to give anyone free will, Its beyond his scope.
God is required to exercise divine power to be God. God can only beat you in a game of poker, if he can see your hand.
God can only beat you in a game of checkers if he forces all your options to be the wrong option.
I don't believe Armenians, but if he wanted to run the universe in an Armenian way could he pull it off? No he can't, Calvinism says he doesn't have the sovereignty to do it. -
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Romans 5
6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. -
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Philippians 2
3Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; 4do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Jesus Christ is our example of action and attitude he does not play lotto or flip a coin concerning the interest of others. We do not play duck, duck, goose with the souls of anyone, and neither does Jesus play reprobate, reprobate, elect. -
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If God never made you, you would never sin either, So you don't even have the option of doing bad things without God. Unless you think you are divine holy evil with a independent capacity.
1 peter 3
8To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit; 9not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing.
This is what God almighty does, and that is what we are going to do.
Luke 11
11“Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 12“Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? 13“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”
ANSWER JESUS CHRIST, Calvinist!
How much more will God give the holy spirit to those who ask him? You don't have it if your asking for it.
Isn't the answer HE WON'T?
This passage is directly combating the idea of Calvinism. Because Jesus is talking to a crowd of people who think God wouldn't do anything for them if they asked for help. That they are worthless to God.
And Yet Jesus equates them EVIL as having a heavenly Father who indeed loves them.
A Calvinist would NEVER preach this passage. I could actually go out and tell this to every person on earth. To tell them they are a child of God and YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER is ready to give you the holy spirit.
A Calvinist would have to say the heavenly father can't give the holy spirit. Because the person has to have the holy spirit to even have the capacity to ask. BACKWARDS to the message of Jesus.
You can't repent and receive the holy spirit, BACKWARDS BACKWARDS BACKWARDS>>>> Calvinism says the holy spirit has to regenerate you first then you can repent.
Matthew 6
14“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15“But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
Nope, Calvinist says its BACKWARDS:
For if GOD forgives you your transgressions, then you have the capacity to forgive others. But if God doesn't forgive you then you can't forgive anyone.
BACKWARDS.
Still got bout 150 verses on the matter. Its silly to believe the ball is not in your court, God says it is.
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