Very good post.
Is it the sinner's fault that he will go to hell?
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by IAMWEAK_2007, Jan 10, 2013.
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Be at peace -
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Hvae they come to their beliefs/conclusion due to a careful study of the word, or just "calvinism not true, just take other side of that!" -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
If we are to compete, lets do it on something like who does the better job of bringing Christ to the community & who does a better job of taking care of Widows & orphans. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Does this verse say all men are dead in Adam? NO, it says all men will die (future tense). You must be alive to die. A rock cannot die, because it was never alive. This verse actually REFUTES your view, but you are not able to comprehend that.
You throw "in Adam" around like it is said 50 times in scripture, it is not, this is the one and only mention of it in all scripture, and this chapter is speaking only of PHYSICAL death, not spiritual. The entire 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians concerns the resurrection of our physical bodies.
Much scripture shows man is born ALIVE.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Does Paul say he was born dead in sin? NO, Paul says he was alive until the commandment came. He had just said that it was the law that taught him what sin is, so this is what he is speaking of, being made aware of what sin is, and that he is guilty of sin. It was when the commandment came and he understood sin that he was convicted and spiritually died.
Did Jesus say a man is born dead in sin? No.
Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
When the prodigal son repented, twice Jesus said he was alive AGAIN. You can't be alive again unless you were first alive ONCE as Paul said in Rom 7:9.
You folks just keep on believing the false doctrine of Augustine and ignore what the scriptures really say. None of you has a clue. -
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There is no greater arrogance on earth than that that abides in the breast of a man who thinks he needs no man to help him understand the Scriptures because God speaks to him.
I submit that those who believe that sit way atop of the pinnacle of arrogance.
Winman believes it as much as anyone I have ever seen. -
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The scriptures do not show us born dead in sin, separated from God. The scriptures show us as God's sheep who go astray from the flock and become dead and lost. When we repent, we are RETURNED to Christ, we are ALIVE AGAIN.
1 Pet 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now -
So where does the elder son fit into this:
"....Lo, these many years do I serve thee, and I never transgressed a commandment of thine...."
Did he not die? -
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Luk 15:25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
Note from the beginning that Jesus said the father had TWO sons. So, neither were lost.
Note that the elder son said that he never transgressed his father's commandment at any time.
Did the father correct the elder son and call him a self-righteous hypocrite? NO, the father actually verified that what he said was true. He called him "Son" a term never said of lost sinners, he said that he was "EVER WITH ME", that is, he was never separated by sin from his father, and ALL that he had was his. He also did not say that the elder son was ever dead or lost like his brother the prodigal.
This elder son was NEVER lost. He NEVER sinned EVER. How can this be?
If Original Sin were true, this would be impossible, but this is exactly what Jesus told us, and Jesus would not mislead us on doctrine.
The only person this could be is a child who died before the could commit sin. Is there scripture to support this? YES.
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )
Had Jacob and Esau sinned while they were in their mother's womb? NO. If they had died, would they have died in sin? NO. They would be like this elder brother who never transgressed at any time his father's commandment.
The scriptures clearly say and show that little children have committed no sin. If they died, they would be like the elder brother described by Jesus in Luke 15.
In fact, look at the first two parables in this chapter. How many sheep did the shepherd originally have? ONE HUNDRED. One went out and became lost, the shepherd searched and recovered it. But originally it was not lost.
How about the woman, how many silver pieces did she have? TEN. One became lost, she searched and recovered it. But originally it was not lost.
Jesus did not teach Original Sin for those who simply read the scriptures without letting themselves be deceived by false doctrine.
Read and see for yourself. If you want to know the truth, you will. -
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Does that make you more knowledgeable than those who have been Calvinists for less years?
What advantage do you think this is? -
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