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Featured Is Mattew 12:40 Employing Common Jewish Idiomatic Language?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by rstrats, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    No. All others would have to include an astronomical error which the Jews were not inclined to make. (Astronomical observation is how they set the date for the Passover.)
     
  2. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Although I am not a great fan of the Worldwide Church of God nor its largest break-away successor, the United Church of God, even a stopped clock is right twice a day and Scott Ashley got it right in his excellent article. Good find. :)
     
  4. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Wow, I didn't even notice the source. Thank you for warning me. That said, they are using astronomical software, which is very reliable. I'll have to find the software and use it myself for maximum reliability.
     
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  5. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    Van,
    re: "The answer has been provided, and you simply offered absurd arguments to nullify the presentation.... I showed how the term 'three days and three nights' was used to describe a period containing less than three nights..."

    Pick just one of your examples and explain how there is no way that any part of a daytime or any part of a night time could have occurred.


    Maybe someone new looking in might know of examples.
     
  6. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    Van,
    re: "And I showed how 'in three days' sometimes refers to the day after tomorrow or less than 72 hours. If you put the examples together, then three days and three nights can refer to 3 days and 3 days can refer to the day after tomorrow or Friday to Sunday."

    That's an issue for a different topic.
     
  7. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    Steven Yeadon,
    re" This can be combined with the fact part of a day may be reckoned as a day using Jewish idomatic language. (Australia Jews for Jesus: Three Days? Three nights? How does that work?)"

    I'm afraid that it doesn't. I don't see where it shows any examples of a daytime or a night time being forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    My job was not to provide examples that you could not reject, personal incredulity is a non-rebuttal. I provided examples where several commentators agree, they show, taken together, that the saying "three days and three nights" could refer to the day after tomorrow, or from Friday, before sundown to Sunday at sunrise. Others that have studied the idea believe in longer durations, but the view I presented is still the mainstream view.
     
  9. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    For you Thursday (or is it Wednesday?) crucifixion folks: How and why did Friday become the tradition? Was that no one could count three days and three nights?
     
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Friday became the tradition of the Church of Rome due to a failure to understand that the day before the Sabbath was not necessarily Friday if there were two Sabbaths in the week in question, one the regular Sabbath and the other the High Sabbath of the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

    And, unfortunately, when the Protestant Reformation occurred the Reformers left the Church of Rome but brought way too much of the furniture with them. :)
     
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  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    That seems highly unlikely to me, seeing they could read the law as well as we can, and had the access to rabbinical tradition we do, if not better.
     
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    As if Catholics are great bible scholars?
     
  13. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    The corruptions that crept in doesn't negate their scholarship. Whether or not there were high holy days in Judaism has nothing to do with one's theology. Rabbinical tradition was just as corrupt, yet their scholarship was eminent.

    Right or wrong moving the observance to Friday had to have been purposeful.
     
  14. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    Van,
    re: "My job was not to provide examples that you could not reject..."

    It was if you wanted to be responsive to this topic because that is what the topic is asking for; i.e., examples that show that it was common to forecast that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could occur. So far none have been shown.
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    And, whether you are willing to admit it or not, I provided two examples, that taken together demonstrate 3 days and 3 nights could mean the day after tomorrow. Also personal incredulity is a non-rebuttal, a logical fallacy. Since multiple commentators understand the examples as I have outlined the meaning, your rejection of the interpretation carries no water.

    Here is Benson Commentary:

    1 Samuel 30:12-13. Three days and nights — One whole day, and part of two others, as appears from the next verse, where he says, Three days ago I fell sick; but in the Hebrew it is, This is the third day since I fell sick. A young man of Egypt
     
  16. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    Van,
    re: "...I provided two examples, that taken together demonstrate 3 days and 3 nights could mean the day after tomorrow."

    Agree, but I don't see where your examples preclude at least a portion of each daytime and/or at least a portion of each night time. Please explain why you think that they do.
     
  17. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Gen 1:5

    I guess that was before there was any, "
    Jewish Idiomatic Language,"
     
  18. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    percho,
    re: "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Gen 1:5
    I guess that was before there was any, '
    Jewish Idiomatic Language,'"

    I'm afraid I don't see your point.
     
  19. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    And the evening and the morning were the third day.

    I was just trying to formulate in my mind whether this was really three evenings and three mornings or just part of three evenings and mornings that made up the third day.

    Just thinking out loud, I guess.

    I've made up my mind. I think it was seventy two hours.

    I also think the Son of Man was in the heart of the earth, whatever that means, seventy two hours.
     
  20. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    percho,

    As I wrote in post #25, since you're not a 6th day of the week crucifixion advocate you probably won't know of any examples.
     
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