You straight-up added text to the Bible. Just admit it.
Is Psychology biblical?
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by luke1616, Jan 17, 2011.
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I've noticed that the "anti-psychology at any cost" crowd won't say whether they go to medical doctors for extra-biblical aid. Foolish positions cannot be held consistently nor followed to their logical conclusions. Scripture does not directly cover all areas of life. As an outdoors-man, I've yet to find direction in Scripture for surviving the elements. There are many areas of lie that Scripture does not discus in detail. That does not make those details anti-Scripture.
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You have just slanderd me. :tonofbricks: Congradulations on that. But dont worry about it, I've been slandered before. :wavey:
Im my post I said...
God bless. -
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I said..."it could be paraphrased", which of means that I was saying that "psycho-babble" would fall under what the passage of scripture is referring to.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
AiC -
I'm sorry you misunderstood.
I said that the verse "could be paraphased"...meaning that I believe that "Psycho-babble" would fit perfectly with what the scripture is saying.
Hope that helps. Thank you for your input.
AiC -
Have I missed anyone? :wavey::godisgood:
Praise the Lord.
AiC -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
May I suggest that most of the posts in this thread are generalizing? I suggest that there are two kinds of psychology that should be distinguished.
(1) Speculative psychology, based on nothing scientific. Freud would obviously fit in this category, with his nonsense about id, ego and super ego. Maslov would fit in here with his self esteem (prophesied as self love in the Bible and condemned). Rogers would fit in with his non-directive approach. And so forth. We can oppose this kind of psychology on Biblical grounds, and many Christian counselors have done so: L. Gilbert Little, Jay Adams and Wayne Mack (NANC), Don Matzat, Charles Solomon, etc.
(2) Medical treatment of the mentally ill, and the straight scientific research (on the brain, etc.) that produces the treatment. This is where psychology can actually be scientific and useful. I used to believe that one goal of a Christian counselor with anyone mentally ill should be to get them off their medicine. After counseling a schizophrenic girl and during that time being set straight by a doctor at a NANC counseling clinic (Jay Adams' people), I realized that the medicine which the girl took was actually benificial--to the family to prevent trouble! -
Christian Psychology is two separate teachings. It is the study of man's psychology first. Wundt, Jung, Freud, etc. Nothing about Jesus anywhere.
Then adding the Christian aspect is attempted, with generalized statements of "all truth is God's truth" or "God is love, so even if a man's teaching is Godless, it must be okay because it's helping man, and helping man is love, so it must be God." John 14 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." No truth in man's psychology.
I can now say I am a Christian Buddist because after all, the Buddist is peaceful, and God is peaceful, and everything peaceful is from God so it must be okay.
The study of man's psychology is ALWAYS changing, using DIFFERENT methods and models to treat sin. One method will not work on every problem.
Jesus' word NEVER changes, His word is above the teaching of men. His teaching works on ALL sin.
The study of man's psychology takes great indepth intellectual understanding, not everyone qualifies.
Jesus requires a simple child like faith, believing with the heart, all are invited. We grow in Christ, not Freud.
Man's psychology does not require a person to believe in Christ in it's operation and practice.
Christianity does not require Godless man's teachings, it warns against it from creeping in.
Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life." "Put away the old (worldy teachings) put on the new" Put on the mind of Christ, not Freud, or Jung, or the latest author. Jesus is the only author.
If psychology is good and it comes from God, why use your bible? Will you witness to the lost about how Jung and Freud is the way the truth and the life?
If the bible is the complete finished instruction for Christians, why would you use Godless mans teachings to understand truth? Again "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive..."
Can you rely on the bible only? Does the Holy Spirit teach you through Freud and Jung? -
Baptist Believer Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Have you noticed that, up to this point, no one who has condemned psychology will deal with the issue of using modern medicine?
1) Everyone walking on the earth today holds a mixture of truth and error - even your pastor. That's why it is important to listen to different points of view and take responsibility for truth and error on your own.
2) You seem to assume that the insights of psychology are of necessity, 100% error, although your question is so unclear, I can't know for sure.
1.) I am not advocating mixing truth and error.
2.) I am advocating discernment.
In cases of apparent mental illness, I would recommend a church member see both an M.D. and a psychologist counselor to diagnose the issue. (I am somewhat knowledge regarding the symptoms of various kinds of mental illness based on my experience with troubled people.) And yes, often there are spiritual problems that go along with mental illness. I would continue ministering to the individual myself.
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John of Japan has given the best answer so far.
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A number of years ago, our church (over 2000 in attendane) retained or had an agreement with a Christian Counseling business to refer counseling cases to. I was not personally involved, so I don't know the details.
At a business meeting, the rationale was to preclude possible lawsuits against the church by referring cases to licensed counselors. It was felt that it was cheaper to do this than to hire a licensed counselor on staff.
Anyone have any experience in this area? -
Jesus said my sheep will hear my voice, and they will not follow the voice of a stranger. Psychology is the voice of a stranger. You can label Freud and Jung with "Christian" but a label does not make it so. Your church might be following the voice of a stranger.
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Wow, it is amazing how so many broad statements are made about this topic. Many of the statements made show a complete lack of understanding and little if any true Biblical discernment. It is so inconsistent to say that psychology is evil because it is "man's wisdom" and then to say it is ok to use or participate in other disciplines that are so called "man's wisdom" such as medical practice, electronics and technology and so on.
Yes, all wisdom is from God. God gave man wisdom to understand medical procedures and to discover new medicines. Not all those who have done so are believers and yet most Christians freely use that wisdom which is from God to man in order to develop such procedures and medicine.
The same could be said of electronics. God gave man the wisdom to develop the things we enjoy today. Were all things in the electronic world developed by "godly men"? Of course not, yet we use our computers daily.
Do ungodly people pervert these disciplines? Does man's wisdom distort the things of God and add to or change what God teaches in His Word? That I think is an obvious answer. And yet when it comes to the discipline of psychology many refuse to see that it has value as does medicine, electronics and so on.
It appears to me (just my observation, not an accusation) that many comments that have been made come from the prospective of someone who has not dealt with any or has had very little exposure to those with mental disorders. As the Father of a son who is bi-polar, we have dealt with several suicide attempts, homicide attempts and extreme behavioral swings. I have appreciated the value and wisdom of Christian counselors. I have also dealt with many folks who have mental disorders and have been greatly appreciative of a counselor who can guide a person spiritually while guiding them in the treatment of the disorder.
Ever been to a Christian doctor? Based on the logic used, there cannot be a Christian doctor because much of medicine has been developed by "ungodly men". Man's wisdom has perverted medicine in many ways yet Christian's go to medical doctors all of the time. Should we avoid the doctor because it is man's wisdom?
Many so called Pastor's have perverted the wisdom of God by twisting the Scripture to fit what they want it to say or taking Scripture out of context. The science and practice of psychology is wisdom from God given to man. Yes, some have perverted that wisdom, many have not. -
Baptist Believer Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Furthermore, this kind of statement makes me think (if you’re being honest) that you believe psychology is something different than what the rest of us are talking about.
Here’s what I’m talking about when I refer to psychology:
psy•chol•o•gy
[sahy-kol-uh-jee] –noun, plural -gies.
1. the science of the mind or of mental states and processes.
2. the science of human and animal behavior.
3. the sum or characteristics of the mental states and processes of a person or class of persons, or of the mental states and processes involved in a field of activity: the psychology of a soldier; the psychology of politics.
Psychology is not a “voice.” It is a field of study based on observation and experience with human behaviors, mental states and processes, actions, and ways of thinking.
Based on long-term observations and interactions with large groups of people, psychologists can detect patterns of behavior, destructive mental states, and make predictions of how someone might act in the future based on those patterns, unless there is a break with their routine (whether religious or otherwise).
For instance, I went to a counselor last year for personal reasons. I was suffering some post-traumatic stress (dreams always ending in death of loved ones, insomnia, irritability, intense anger) because of the need for me to manage the clean-up of the scene where a near family member committed suicide by shotgun to the head. I also needed help figuring out constructive ways to deal with my intense grief and anger to deal other family members who are mentally ill, and (in my opinion) largely responsible for creating the conditions while drove the deceased family member into despair.
The counselor, using knowledge of psychology, explained what science has observed regarding certain types of behavior, asked very probing and relevant questions which clarified what I was dealing with, and worked with me to develop a workable plan to help other family members who are innocent victims of the mentally-ill relatives. Furthermore, he helped me work through the issues that were exacerbating my grieving process, and gain understanding of how grief may manifest itself in the near to long-term future based on my circumstances. Armed with this knowledge, I am more prepared to deal with unexpected issues (such as when observing the Lord’s Supper and the pastor asks us to consider the “body and blood” of Jesus, I am immediately taken to that bloody suicide scene in my mind).
A good counselor, who is using the findings of psychology appropriately, is not trying to control his clients or dictate to them the way things are (unlike certain people here), but is a confidant who helps clients figure out what is going on in their lives and how they can make positive steps forward.
Should we allow a non-Christian to testify in court about what he/she has witnessed?
Do you allow a surgeon to operate on you if they (and all of the people who taught them and wrote the medical books) are not Christians?
Is it possible for a lost person make accurate observations regarding the behavior (not necessarily motivations) of others? -
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