Preachers can be in error. Hear the truth - God is one in essence, 3 distinct persons.
See this for more.
Is there a hierarchy in the trinity?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Jun 22, 2008.
Page 2 of 2
-
-
-
You mean Jesus is not God now. That is heresy.
You mean the Holy Spirit did not exist as God before Christ. That also is heresy.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
--He was in heaven with the Father at the same time that He was on earth? How do you account for that?
Consider again the Father and Christ?
Acts 7:55-56 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said,
56 Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Was Stephen delusional? He saw both the Father and the Son at the same place in the same time. Both were different persons. Christ still had his resurrected body. He saw him standing on the right hand of the throne of God.
The dove is identified. "The Holy Spirit as a dove descended" The Holy Spirit made His presence known in a physical form, not a spirit form. One cannot see a spirit, but the saw the Holy Spirit. He made Himself known to all that were there.
And of course Christ was there.
All three of the persons were there in phyiscal form of one sort of another--all at the same time. And yet you deny this. You deny the very Word of God.
When you redefine well known words to make up your own religion, you deceive yourself. -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
Thinkingstuff Active Member
The Eastern Chruches beleives the Essense Flows from the Father to the Son and the Holy Spirit. To believe that there are three distinct Gods is heresy. To Believe that Jesus is a Demurge is Heresy. To believe that the Holy Spirit is not a person of the Trinity is Heresy. This was disputed at the Nicean Council and the answers are there:
-
Some Eastern Fathers would even go as far as considering the Filioque clause as being heresy.
ICXC NIKA
- -
That is - God cannot sin. Does that limit Him or glorify Him?
God cannot be other than what He is. Is that a limitation or a point of hope and assurance?
Do not create false dilemmas to prop up heresy.
Blessings. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
And I thought I mentioned that the eastern churches believe that the Son and Spirit essense flows from the Father which would give a hierachy in actuality rather than positionally. Is this correct? -
"Jesus WAS God, inferring that He ISN"T God right now."
"The Holy Spirit IS God with us now, inferring that Christ IS NOT with us right now, in spite of many promises that He is. " This is what you are saying.
The statemens are wrong; in fact heretical. They deny the omniscience of Christ and even the deity of Christ.
Is the Holy Spirit simply a manifestation of God the Son?
Is that a limitation that you have put on God?
Of course it is?
Was God the Father present at the baptism?
Was he present in any type of physical form. If not, who is the one who is limiting God? You are. There is one God in three persons, each person co-equal with each other. You limit God by denying that truth. Why do you limit God?
I can see these persons in the Bible described for me.
When you redefine words you limit what the Bible says. You limit God. And you become part of a cult.
That is unfortunate, but it is the truth. -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Jesus told the desciples that he had to leave and that another would be sent to them. That was and is the Holy Spirit ... God with us now.
And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
Matthew 3:16-17 (in Context) Matthew 3 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 17:5
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"
Matthew 17:4-6 (in Context) Matthew 17 (Whole Chapter)
2 Peter 1:17
For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
Note, no where does scripture say that the Father was there in a physical form.
-
We sing about "God in three persons, blessed Trinity." The way I see it God the Son was the only member of the Trinity that can be called a "person." What the exact nature of the divine part of the Son and the nature of the Father and the Holy Spirit is we can only speculate about based on what we're told in the Bible. One thing we do know is that we believe in ONE God, monotheism. How the three aspects/manifestations/persona, etc. that make up our one true God relate to each other I believe we really can't know on this side of eternity.
-
You misunderstand John 1:1
Jesus came to earth: lived, died, was buried, and rose from the dead the third day (1Cor.15:3,4). He now sits on the right hand of the throne of God--in his physical body, not as a spirit. He said to the angels:
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
He will come again as they saw him go--physically. Why? He retains his physical body. He appeared to many in his physical body after he arose before his ascension. He still has a physical body now.
He said: "I will be with you alway, even unto the end of the world, Amen." (Mat.28:20).
--He personally will be with us. He does not lie. He is God.
Is Jesus God? Yes or No. No clarification needed. Is Jesus Christ God?
Is Jesus Christ God? Not the persona of God--Is Jesus Christ God?
I don't believe I misunderstand you. You are denying the omniscience and deity of Christ. That was my statement. That statement will be verified by a simple yes or no answer to the question:
Is Jesus Christ God?
You evaded my question.
I asked: Is the Holy Spirit, according to your theology, a manifestation of the Son? Yes or No.
I said:
At the baptism of Christ, God manifested himself in three distince physical forms and you deny it.
That is not an interpretation. That is what happened. And that is what you deny what happened.
A voice can only come from a physical presence. "No man hath seen God at any time." They heard his voice. They saw the dove (the Holy Spirit). They saw Christ. All three were there. The people heard God the Father.
They saw God the Holy Spirit.
They heard, saw, and even touched God the Son.
All three PERSONS of the Holy Spirit were present, and it cannot be denied.
You are joking right? You don't even know what the Greek says yourself. You haven't even taken Greek by your own admission.
Here is some information for you.
The word "person" in the KJV is used 56 times. Only twice does it refer to Christ. And in those two times it uses two completely different Greek words, both of which are not the word that you referred to. Get your facts straight before you start spouting off about the Greek, which you obviously know nothing about.
They didn't have to, and I didn't say they did. You misread my statement deliberately or perhaps it was a bit too ambiguous for your mind.
However a force cannot be lied to, and neither can a manifestation. The Holy Spirit is a person. A person can be lied to. Annanias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit.
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
You lie to people, to persons. The Holy Spirit is a person.
I didn't have to look the word up in the Greek because the Greek did not use the word person in relation to the Holy Spirit, just like the Greek did not use the word trinity, nor does the Greek use the word theology. But I suppose you don't study theology either.
"the person of the Holy Spirit" is not in the NT, just as "the manifestation of the Holy Spirit" is not in the NT. Your theology is not in the NT. You are making things up as you go along. -
What the Eastern Churches teach is that the Trinity is three (3) divine persons (hypostases) who share one essence (ousia) are one essence (homoousios) and are coeternal.
The source of the Holy Trinity is the Father, from whom the Son is begotten and also from whom the Spirit precedes. The Father is both the ground of unity of the Trinity and also of distinction.
Georgory the Theologian said that to try and comprehend unbegottenness (Father), begottenness (Son), or procession (Holy Spirit) leads to insanity.
In XC
- -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
It is obvious that you cannot discuss this in a rational way. So, let's just drop it. -
-
Thinkingstuff Active Member
Page 2 of 2