It's ok{edit}, you do it all the time. And no, he suggested that either you didn't believe in the trinity or you were confusing the terms. In other words, you were not being consistent. He wasn't saying that you didn't believe in the trinity. Stop reading in to things others say and cry victim. No one is falling for it. I've have at least 2-3 times asked you a simple question and you refuse to answer it. Instead you cry about me misrepresenting you instead of just asking the question. Grow up!
Sorry, but you have been proven wrong over and over and over again.
Is there a retitle suggestion for Calvinism and Arminianism
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Jan 9, 2012.
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I am surprised that you've gone down into the arena of the tactics of a certain tribe of non-cals and have used pejoratives. You're way above that. -
However, you are correct in that I shouldn't have used a derogatory name. Of which I have removed from my previous post. I shouldn't do that which I'm saying is wrong. I guess I was being hypocritical. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Thats why he is one of standing members in my "Ignore" club! And standing cause I wont give him a chair. :D
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I think both groups need to have the same name.
I ---I'm
R---right
Y---you
A---are
W--wrong
:laugh::tongue3::laugh: -
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I thought about IRA and ROTH
I'm - Always - Right
Righteous - Only - Through - Him -
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Reply to Old Regular
Next,you offer an alternate understanding of what "in Him" adds to Ephesians 1:4. Apparently you think God chose foreseen individuals and put this "folks" into the body of Christ, before Christ died on the cross. Question for you, Sir, where were the OT saints confined to "Abraham's bosom" before Christ died? How come they were not in "Christ's bosom?" Your position is a fiction.
Yes I do persist in saying God chose Christ to be His Lamb, and hence His Redeemer. Not to put too fine a point on it, but Christ means Anointed One and when a person is anointed that means they have been chosen for some purpose which the anointing prepares them for.
Certainly salvation is the work of God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But scripture provides us with some specific details, such as the Holy Spirit sets us apart in Christ based on God crediting our faith as righteousness.
Sir, to say God chose Christ as His Redeemer is neither meaningless nor nonsense, because He did and He did it before the foundation of the world.
You sidestepped the idea that if God chose you for salvation by means of faith in the truth, then our election occurs during our lifetime, after we put our faith in Christ. You seem to deny 2 Thessalonians 2:13. -
Reply to Slander
Here are some cut and paste Greek Grammar sources:
"En (Dative)
1. Spatial/Sphere: in (and various other translations)
2. Temporal: in, within, when, while, during
3. Association (often close personal relationship): with
4. Cause: because of
5. Instrumental: by, with
6. Reference/Respect: with respect to/with reference to
7. Manner: with
8. Thing Possessed: with (in the sense of which possesses)
9. Standard (=Dative of Rule): according to the standard of
10. As an equivalent for eis (with verbs of notion)"
"En (#1722 evn): En only takes the dative case. When en modifies a noun, the noun will be in the dative case and the preposition will be understood in one of these ten ways:
1. Sphere: in
E.g., “I hope that we are made manifest also in your consciences” (2 Cor. 5:11).
2. Spatial: in
E.g., “there was a woman in the city who was a sinner” (Luke 7:37).
3. Temporal: in, while, during
E.g., “in the days of Herod the king” (Matt. 2:1; cp. Matt. 11:22).
4. Association: with
E.g., “the Father is in me and I am in the Father” (John 10:38; cp. John 14:20).
5. Causal: because of
E.g., “And they glorified God in me” (Gal. 1:24). ESV: “And they glorified God
because of me.” (Cp. Acts 7:29; Heb. 10:10).
6. Instrumental: by, with
E.g., “[Will not the King] consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to
oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand” (Luke 14:31).
7. Agency/Means: by means of
Greek Word List 624
E.g., “the Pharisees said, ‘He casts out demons by the prince of demons’” (Matt.9:34).
8. Thing possessed: with, which possesses
E.g., “there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit” (Mark 1:23; cp.Eph. 6:2).
9. Standard/Dative of Rule: according to the standard of
E.g., “as to the righteousness which is in the Law, [I was] found blameless” (Phil.3:6; cp. 2 Tim. 3:16).
10. Used in place of eis with verbs of motion
E.g., “to turn… the disobedient to the wisdom of the just” (Luke 1:17; 9:46)."
QED The Calvinist view of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 as expressed by Agedman is mistaken, "en" is used as "by means of" -
It was an honest question that you mistook. It was my responsibility to state the question so that you would not assume a defensive stance. Apparently I did not, and that is again, my fault.
As I ponder about your post, I questioned why you would post something that so obviously supported what I have been stating, and you have continued to oppose?
Then, I thought that perhaps in your desiring to hold "en" as showing dynamic (moving) progression rather than a static (non-moving) state, you would grab any thread out of the meaning list and not realize in doing so, it unraveled the whole fabric of your view.
For all who are reading this thread, here is a link giving extensive original and translations of 2 Thessalonians 2:13. What is neat about this link is, if you highlight and copy it into a Word document, the Greek automatically occurs in the Greek Script.
Unfortunately, I don't know how to copy it to the BB or I would have done so here.
http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B53C002.htm#V13
Van.
I have pretty much ignored your "by means of" statements thinking that perhaps you were beginning to realize the view you were holding as mistaken. "By means of" is not what you are assigning it to mean.
As has been the history of this tread, I will illustrate how "by means of" is used within the static placement of "en".
"What proof do yo have that you are a citizen?
Is it because you were merely born a citizen, or is it that you have a certificate of birth?
One proves they are a citizen "by means of" a birth certificate or certificate of citizenship.
In the example of your post “the Pharisees said, ‘He casts out demons by the prince of demons'" the "by" does not refer back to the casting, but to the one who is casting - a noun - "by means of the prince of demons." Because the word (by means of) is directly attached to a following noun, it must be static and not dynamic.
I do so hope you soon recognize your inaccuracy! -
Election is basis of salvation by faith in Christ, NOT faith in Chrsit causing the election to happen!
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