Israel’s Restoration?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by 1689Dave, Jul 28, 2018.

  1. Covenanter Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    526
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What do you make of Paul's allegory -

    Gal. 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
     
  2. HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Those who look to the law for righteousness are actually slaves to sin while those saved by grace through faith are free from sin.
    BTW, One scriptural allegory does not necessarily cancel out a multi-layered account of truth
     
  3. 1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Only through faith in Christ.
     
  4. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, as the nation still alive will be reborn in a day!
     
  5. 1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We are the nation God grafts them into by faith. See Rom. 11.
     
  6. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Within spiritual israel, there are spiritual Jews, and spiritual Gentiles.
     
  7. 1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not so. This was true in the OT but God removed all the unbelievers (Rom. 11). Only believers remained. It is into these God will graft the broken off through faith in Christ.
     
  8. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We are still jewish or geniles when saved!
     
  9. 1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Christ abolished circumcision on the cross. Since then, the means of becoming physical Jew or physical member of Israel no longer existed. These are all gentiles by default. And are grafted in by faith in Christ during the times of the gentiles.
     
  10. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There are Jews and gentiles, but all now one in Christ!
     
  11. 1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Technically Jews are a false religion, not a race. When Christ converts them they become Christians.
     
  12. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Whoa re the majority of those in Israel then?
     
  13. 1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Self proclaimed Israel, not biblical Israel which is Christendom. They are defrocked Jews, now gentiles trodding down Jerusalem until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled.
     
  14. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nope, we are the Gentiles trodding down jerusalem, as your real mkistake is not seeing that Jews still means Jews!
     
  15. 1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    When Christ abolished circumcision on the cross, nothing remained to make one a physical Jew or a physical member of Israel.
     
  16. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus and Paul means that there is no difference in either Jew of Genile being saved by Grace of same Messiah, NOT that physical Jews no longer existed!
     
  17. 1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    They cannot exist without circumcision.
     
  18. robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,365
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The nation of Israel today is actually the nation of JUDAH. The Jews consist of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. but God said He will make the nation of israel whole again, re-joining the Jews to the rest of the tribes. Here's the Scriptural proof from Ezekiel 37:


    15 Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.

    18 “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.” ’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.

    21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.


    These verses follow the famous vision of the bones coming together, etc., which God says represents the WHOLE nation of Israel.

    I believe these Scriptures are pretty plain about what God is gonna do with Israel and Judah. people may guess & speculate about these things, but as for me, I will ACCEPT GOD'S WORDS AS WRITTEN, & not try to add nor subtract any other meanings from them.
     
  19. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Great Tribulation will be terible times forthe jewish people, as 2/3 of the nation will die in end times, but those remaining shall receive/accept jesus as messiah at Second Coming!
     
  20. 1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The problem is, when Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, nothing remained to make one a physical member of Israel/Judah. All of the broken off branches became gentiles by default. Only to be reattached through faith in Christ, he is true Israel.