Israel must go back to 1967 borders

The Jews are still God's chosen people in many Christians minds, many feel that God is not through with her as a nation nor the Jews as a people. That is why some of us connect the promise with even today.
Germany cursed them and killed them and Germany was utterly defeated and divided into two nations for many decades. They cursed the Jews. If you don't help them can that be considered cursing them? If you do all in your power to cut down and reduce someone is that not cursing them? Just asking for clarity, not as an attack, to see where you view that type of action. If someone tried to diminish your property and get you give more of it to your neighbor would you feel it as a cursing or a blessing?

 

Do you consider the president's statement that the modern state of Israel must return to her 1967 borders equivalent to Hitler's attempt to wipe out the entire Jewish race?

The Jews exist all over the world. How is this demand a curse on the Jews who live outside of the current state of Israel?

 

Part of my problem with this is that it is a reversal of what the President has claimed in the past.

Are there other instances where he has supposedly 'cursed' the Jewish race?

 

The Jews fought and lost lives to gain the Land they have, land that God promised would be theirs forever. Now the American President is saying give it back. That would be like saying well let's go back under British rule to Americans. Let's give back the territories we won in 1847 to Mexico. Texas needs to go back to Mexican control, even thought lives were lost at the Alamo we need to give back that territory. Is that not cursing them. The biggest thing he just did was give up the support money from the Jews in this nation, they recognize this as a slap in their faces, that to them is a curse.

He must know he can make the funds up but from where? Who can make up the support money he will lose by saying this?

Maybe the Arab Muslim world?

I read an article before the President was elected in it was the writers opinon that the one world Government crowd and several secret organizations that every president we have had either belonged to or was a puppet of would allow Mr. Obama to be elected for one specific reason. To get the muslim nations on board with the one world government order, not the common people but the ones in charge.

Thus he is appeasing them, in Egypt, Libya and now with this statement about Israel. To this point he has shown support in somethings for Israel but in others he has condemned their actions for retaliating against attacks on their peoples by Hamas and other groups, while we went after Osama for the 911 attacks he tells Israel not to retaliate.

Now he is turning on our allie, now he is slapping them in the face and that is a cursing to them.

 

I agree 100% that this is the wrong political choice. I agree that it is betraying an ally.

I don't understand how or agree that expecting the modern state of Israel to return to her original borders is cursing the Jewish race.

To equate this to Hitler's slaughter is incorrect. That was against an entire race, this is dealing with one small political entity.

 

The Jews here in the USA see it as a slap in their faces. They are seeing as big enough issue hear that they will not support him with monitary funds for his campaign. What is done to nation Israel is an afront to every Jew everywhere. While it is political to us and possibly the President it is to the Jews a slap in the face a cursing. The point of Germany is they started out as a cursing of the Jewish people blaming them for all the economic problems and the hate escalated into murder.

Would we go to Israels aide if Iran attacked them or if Syria or the Lebanese attacked? If we don't we are no longer an ally if not an ally then an enemy and that makes it that we are cursing them at least in the eyes of the Jewish people, if you aren't for them you are against them and that to them is cursing them.

 

Could you give some info on how you know the mindset of Jewish people please? Could you document a Jewish source that sees the president's stance as a curse on the Jewish race?

It is wrong, but it is a political wrong, not a Biblical curse.

 

http://www.newsmax.com/LowellPonte/...PoliticalActionCommittee/2011/05/20/id/397097

Try this article

 

I agree with that article completely. Saw nothing about a curse on the Jewish race.

 

What ould you consider the term curse to be maybe that is where we aren't clear.

Blessing to me means helping, supporting, defending coming to their aide and recognizing their bounderies and right to exist under those boundries as a soverign nation. Cursing would be just the opposite, and saying to return the the 1967 boundries is saying that they don't have aright to exist as a soveriegn nation within their boundries.
To lose that territory would be to lose possession of most of the temple area, the church of the nativity and several other historic sites thatare currently under Israelli control. This would include most of the wailing wall, if you were a Jew and could no longer go to that wall would you feel it a curse?

 

Jews existed long before 1948. To set limits on the nation established in 1948 is not to curse the people.

I somehow suspect that we are not going to agree on this .

Good chatting with you.

 

We don't always have to agree just to have a good discussion. But I am curious what you would consider cursing them, since the promise was i will bless those that bless you and curse those who curse you.

 

Hitler's situation would be a curse. A political choice does not nearly qualify, in my opinion.

My problem is more than that. I don't understand how it is considered a curse on the Jewish race to redraw boundaries of a political entity. I don't accept that the nation whose borders were drawn by the UN in 1948 is necessarily the Israel of the Old Testament.

 

Understand that.

I just see it from the verse that to curse them is the opposite of blessing them, so that even redfining their boundries doesn't bless them it has to do the opposite. They are the descendents of Abraham and as such the promise falls to all natural born Jews, not the nation in itself but it would be included.

When two disagree sometimes it is in the symatics of how they take a point sometimes it is deeper.

 

Jewish donors and fund-raisers are warning the Obama re-election campaign that the president is at risk of losing financial support because of concerns about his handling of Israel.

The complaints began early in President Barack Obama's term, centered on a perception that Mr. Obama has been too tough on Israel.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703509104576331661918527154.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Ummm...no.

 

Another problem is that the pre-67 borders were drawn by the UN, they are not the borders God drew.

 

I suppose you are in agreement with such views as these?:

CURSE THOSE THAT CURSE ISRAEL:
“...It was because the Roman Cornelius of Caesarea was good to the Jews that Cornelius was the first Gentile to receive the gospel......I do not think it is possible to be a good Christian and not stand with Israel and the Chosen People.”
http://bibleprobe.com/curses.htm

“God’s blessing upon a people and nation will depend on how they treat Israel. God promised this to Abraham, the Father of the Jews.....”
http://www.theodoresworld.net/archives/2009/07/antiobama_rally_in_jerusalem_g.html

Blessed Be Israel
“The descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (the Jewish people) are the people mentioned in Genesis 12:3 by which God brings blessings and/or cursings upon individuals, as well as nations, yes, even today.”
http://www.shalom-peace.com/blessed.html

Christians in support of the nation of Israel
“The Bible calls for us Christians to pray for and support the nation of Israel. Genesis 12:3 gives us this commandment from the Almighty God:...“
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3542366695

“Criticism of Israel and of the United States for supporting it leaves evangelicals unmoved. If anything, it only strengthens their conviction that the world hates Israel because "fallen man" naturally hates God and his "chosen people." In standing by Israel, evangelicals feel that they are standing by God -- something they are ready to do against the whole world. Thus John Hagee....." "God's policy toward the Jewish people," Hagee writes, "is found in Genesis 12:3," and he goes on to quote the passage about blessings and curses. "America is at the crossroads!" Hagee warns. "Will we believe and obey the Word of God concerning Israel, or will we continue to equivocate and sympathize with Israel's enemies?"
http://hnn.us/blogs/comments/29596.html

Those who curse Israel.. The USA?
“..... We also need to be praying that God will show Obama and Clinton along with other government leaders that they will finish off the USA if they continue down their path to force Israel to obey them.”
http://www.thesaintsinlight.com/post/2009/03/Those-who-curse-Israel--The-USA.aspx

America is now experiencing the consequences (curses) of Middle East policies which have been opposed to God's Word and to the preservation of His covenant land....this country's participation in Israel's destiny has been flawed when put in context of Holy Scripture.... if this nation continues to support the Mitchell Plan, affirming a land for peace approach, America can expect to experience the lifting of the Lord's protective hand in an even greater measure.
http://www.watch.org/showart.php3?idx=20174&rtn=/index.html&showsubj=1&mcat=1

“By seeking sanction against Iran, Christians are attempting to be “salt” in preserving Israel and the entire region from bloody conflict......Where is all the support for Israel, God's chosen Land, and for the Jewish people, His chosen people? Genisis 12 says...”
http://www.christianpost.com/articl...rs-call-for-sanctions-against-iran/index.html

The promise falls to all spiritual Jews whose mother is the Jerusalem that is above:

neither, because they are Abraham`s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed. Ro 9:7,8

There is a general GROSS misapplication of Gen 12:3 to physical Israel instead of to spiritual Israel, to which it applies, i.e. “Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ..... And if ye are Christ`s, then are ye Abraham`s seed, heirs according to promise” [Gal 3:16,29] The promises pertain to the Church of Christ, not to physical descendants of Abraham.

Just as Abraham's faith was accounted to him for righteousness BEFORE circumcision (Gen 15:6), so was this promise (Gen 12:3) made to him BEFORE circumcision. Paul brings out the significance of that in Romans 4:

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.
10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision:
11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision; that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them;
12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision.
13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect:

Unconditional support for Israel is foolish. Unconditional support for any foreign country is dangerous for the U.S..

 

It would force Israel to turn to Christ. Or speed it up.

 

So then it is a good thing to go back to the UN imposed pre-67 borders so that people will be saved?

Then shouldn't we be for it?