I came across a "Bible Prophecy in The News" broadcast this evening. Does anyone know anything about J.R. Church? What about the corresponding magazine?
J.R. Church
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by PilgrimPastor, Mar 6, 2009.
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Yes, there seems to be a correlation between some of the Psalms and the 20th century:
1901 - 1
1902- 2
...
1999 - 99
2000 - 100
and this continues on into the 21st century:
2001 - 101
2002 - 102
...
2049 - 149
2050 - 150
J.R. Church nor his staff has never SET A DATE for the pretribulation rapture nor the Second Coming of Jesus.
J.R. Church and his staff seem to be among the most reasonable inspectors of the news and prophecy of the Bible. -
You know, just because some Christians talk about the rapture and believe in it does not make that a bad thing just because you are a preterist. -
I was schooled at Liberty in a Dispensational Pre-Trib / Pre-Mill view and hold to it, though perhaps I don't focus on it as the heart of my theology as some do. The Cross is central and the point is that he is coming back, but the Bible does give us clues and insight and encouragment to be ready and watchful. -
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The Late Great Planet Earth: "The most important sign in Matthew has to be the restoration of the Jews to the land in the rebirth of Israel. Even the figure of speech ‘fig tree´ has been a historic symbol of national Israel. When the Jewish people, after nearly 2,000 years of exile, under relentless persecution, became a nation again on 14 May 1948 the ‘fig tree´ put forth its first leaves. Jesus said that this would indicate that He was ‘at the door,´ ready to return. Then He said, ‘Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place´ (Matthew 24:34, NASB). What generation? Obviously, in context, the generation that would see the signs—chief among them the rebirth of Israel. A generation in the Bible is something like forty years. If this is a correct deduction, then within forty years or so of 1948, all these things could take place. Many scholars who have studied Bible prophecy all their lives believe that this is so.’2
2 Hal Lindsey, The Late Great Planet Earth (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1970), 53–54.
2.
For Hal Lindsey, every news story is a sign that we are living in the "rapture generation." It wasn’t too long ago that he claimed in his wildly popular prophetic book The Late Great Planet Earth (1970) that the "this generation" of Matthew 24:34 would end sometime before 1988 (1948+40 years=1988). In an interview published in Christianity Today (April 15, 1977), Ward Gasque asked Lindsey: "But what if you’re wrong?" Lindsey replied: "Well, there’s just a split second’s difference between a hero and a bum. I didn’t ask to be a hero, but I guess I have become one in the Christian community. So I accept it. But if I’m wrong about this, I guess I’ll become a bum."
http://www.americanvision.org/article/the-prophecies-of-daniel-why-they-dont-point-to-us/
3.
http://www.americanvision.org/mediafiles/does-the-bible-teach-a-pre-tribulational-rapture.pdf
4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=429OIdIt3Lo
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Well, thanks for the info on Lindsey. I really don't know much about him and I was asking sincerely. I didn't become a Christian until the very end of 1990 and knew zero about this stuff. I had no idea who Hal Lindsey was until about 3 yrs. after I was saved.
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MB -
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Grasshopper said:
So salvation is linked to ones view of a soon coming rapture?Click to expand...
MBClick to expand... -
MB said:I find it interesting that you say he was pointing to 1988 but you yourself fail to mention the day or the hour which would complete the date. The Lord told us we wouldn't know the day or hour. He didn't say anything about the year, but he did say we could know when it is close. Personally I think it may be a lot closer than any of us may want to believe. There is no more prophecy that needs to happen for the rapture to happen. Is that close enough? It might not happen for another 500 years but I think it might happen tomorrow and that's how I live my life, as if it will. With out this expectation we think we have plenty of time. Five virgins thought the same and were lost.
MBClick to expand... -
MB said:I find it interesting that you say he was pointing to 1988 but you yourself fail to mention the day or the hour which would complete the date. The Lord told us we wouldn't know the day or hour. He didn't say anything about the year, but he did say we could know when it is close. Personally I think it may be a lot closer than any of us may want to believe. There is no more prophecy that needs to happen for the rapture to happen. Is that close enough? It might not happen for another 500 years but I think it might happen tomorrow and that's how I live my life, as if it will. With out this expectation we think we have plenty of time. Five virgins thought the same and were lost.
MBClick to expand... -
I searched the web and proto-web (using four different philosopies of search engines). I never found where Lindsey said 1988.
I do not considers statements like this to PREDICT 1988:
if said in 1978 - "if not this year then probably before 1988"
That is just a different way of saying SOON
The Bible teaches SOON - but in God's terms, not yours or mine.
I find it very similar to the conservation I'm having with GLOBAL WARMING deniers. One of their arguments they are so proud of is "in the 1970s" scientists said global cooling was the fear.
Fact, a small minority of scientists 'in the 1970s said something about global cooling. Some predicted another Ice Age in the next 10,000 to 40,000 years not in the next 10 to 40 years.
I was studying the problem from several angles in the 1970s (in the early 1970s I was a high school math teacher, in the mid 1970s I was getting an Engineering Degree. I live in Oklahoma where time is money and time and money are oil and oil is King. When will half the World Oil be used up? Back then the best answer was about 2000 (now the best answer is about 2012). And the other question was 'what all on earth gets messed up if you use half the oil in the world from 1940-2000 (in 60 years)? Then as now, what will happen is that burning half the oil will cause run-away global warming. Folks, we need to reprogram our infrastructure to talk to each over over the internet and not visit with each other so much. I go through housing addition after housing addition (on google map, not in an oil-burning vehicle) and there are no sidewalks - not prevision for walking around the neighborhood. But there are streets - streets where you can drive to huge commercial & industrial centers where the sidewalks are just part of the parking lots.
J.R. Church's organization makes a much better mix of the News and the Bible than even the BB (baptaist board). A person would be better off reading J.R. Church's publication than wasting time on this board.
And that is my opinion. The following are NOT opinions:
1. The Lord is coming back SOON.
2. Our current world activities of everybody going to-and-fro in oil-driven vehicles is going to destroy the surface of the planet with global warming and polution.
3. We do NOT have any right to use the Oil on the surface of the Earth in 100 years and let the Millinnial Messanic Kingdom figure out how to power stuff - they need at least 1,000 years worth.
So get your opinions and FACTS straight.
J.R. Church does. Thank you. -
Marcia said:I think saying no one knows the day or hour is a way of saying know one know when - day, hour or year. It doesn't mean we can know the year.Click to expand...
not knowing the day means not knowing the time
not knowing the hour means not knowing the time
not knowing the year means not knowing the time
But then J.R. Church did not say 1988.
Wisenaught, a pastor from Arkansas said WW3 would start sometime between 23 Sept 1988 and 25 Sept 1988. (on 25 Sept 1988 was my 55th birthday) fortunately I did not read my copy of his book "88 Reasons why I think the Lord will return in 1988 " (or something like that) until about 1990 else I'd have had my birthday on 22 Sept :) -
Marcia said:I think saying no one knows the day or hour is a way of saying know one know when - day, hour or year. It doesn't mean we can know the year.Click to expand...
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
MB -
MB said:The Bible says we can know the season because of the signs, a season is a lot less time than a whole year. How about that?.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
MBClick to expand...
We have been near Jesus coming back since His ascension. So we still don't know the year - could be another 2,000 years. -
Ed EdwardsI searched the web and proto-web (using four different philosopies of search engines). I never found where Lindsey said 1988.Click to expand...
It wasn’t too long ago that he claimed in his wildly popular prophetic book The Late Great Planet Earth (1970) that the "this generation" of Matthew 24:34 would end sometime before 1988 (1948+40 years=1988)
"The most important sign in Matthew has to be the restoration of the Jews to the land in the rebirth of Israel. Even the figure of speech ‘fig tree´ has been a historic symbol of national Israel. When the Jewish people, after nearly 2,000 years of exile, under relentless persecution, became a nation again on 14 May 1948 the ‘fig tree´ put forth its first leaves. Jesus said that this would indicate that He was ‘at the door,´ ready to return. Then He said, ‘Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place´ (Matthew 24:34, NASB). What generation? Obviously, in context, the generation that would see the signs—chief among them the rebirth of Israel. A generation in the Bible is something like forty years. If this is a correct deduction, then within forty years or so of 1948, all these things could take place. Many scholars who have studied Bible prophecy all their lives believe that this is so
No use that math education and figure it out.
The Bible teaches SOON - but in God's terms, not yours or mine.Click to expand...
I was studying the problem from several angles in the 1970s (in the early 1970s I was a high school math teacher, in the mid 1970s I was getting an Engineering Degree.Click to expand...
I live in Oklahoma where time is money and time and money are oil and oil is King. When will half the World Oil be used up? Back then the best answer was about 2000 (now the best answer is about 2012). And the other question was 'what all on earth gets messed up if you use half the oil in the world from 1940-2000 (in 60 years)? Then as now, what will happen is that burning half the oil will cause run-away global warming. Folks, we need to reprogram our infrastructure to talk to each over over the internet and not visit with each other so much. I go through housing addition after housing addition (on google map, not in an oil-burning vehicle) and there are no sidewalks - not prevision for walking around the neighborhood. But there are streets - streets where you can drive to huge commercial & industrial centers where the sidewalks are just part of the parking lots.Click to expand...
J.R. Church's organization makes a much better mix of the News and the Bible than even the BB (baptaist board). A person would be better off reading J.R. Church's publication than wasting time on this board.Click to expand...
And that is my opinion. The following are NOT opinions:
1. The Lord is coming back SOON.Click to expand...
2. Our current world activities of everybody going to-and-fro in oil-driven vehicles is going to destroy the surface of the planet with global warming and polution.Click to expand...
3. We do NOT have any right to use the Oil on the surface of the Earth in 100 years and let the Millinnial Messanic Kingdom figure out how to power stuff - they need at least 1,000 years worth.Click to expand...
So get your opinions and FACTS straight.
J.R. Church does. Thank you.Click to expand...
Now that is funny.:laugh: -
If nobody knows the day, hour, month, year, of even the century of His coming, how can they know it is "soon"?
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