Jesus Christ: Did He Ever Save Anyone, Really ?

Jesus Christ's job is to finish the atonement for unlimited (can be unknown) number of people to be saved. God's job is make sure that those whose names are written on the Book of Life of the Lamb to be saved.

Jesus Christ doesn't need to count His fingers to know who and who will be saved before He decides to sacrifice Himself for the atonement. His sacrifice can save unlimted number of human souls, all left is how many will accept the offer and take the free gift of the covenant. God knows the number though.

 

I think many have stepped up to the plate and hit home runs here, maybe you were out getting a hotdog when it happened,,,,,,,,,,,,,.

Christ's work was finished. He fulled the law and made the one and only blood sacrifice payment for sin that would completely wash it away.
However the application of this payment is not finished because we see the apostle Paul telling us how the application is to spread to all the world.
Paul says in Rom 10 that faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by sending a preacher.

Now it is time for you to step up to the plate and tell us why would the Holy Spirit have Paul give us this order of knowledge if the application of the work of cross had already been made to everyone to which it was intended in eternity past.

Pinoybaptist, the basic disagreement between Calvinism and Biblicalism is not in the method of Salvation, for the disagreement is when this Glorious Salvation is applied.
The continual argument on the method of salvation is only a strawman thrown up to avoid the real issue.

Calvinism feels before the foundation of the world God decreed who would be saved, thus they feel it is finished.
Calvinism places the method of salvation and the application of salvation in eternity past, before man was even created.

Biblicalism feels before the foundation of the world God decreed how He would save mankind and what would become of them once they are saved.
Biblicalism places the method of salvation in eternity past; but the application of salvation in real time is based on the foreknowledge of each man's heart by God of how each man would receive the offer of said salvation.

The above raises a few questions. It is time one should address these questions for every time they are asked, they are just ignored and avoided.
So, my friend, step up to the plate and please explain:

--If God decreed who would be save, then by default God also decreed who would be lost; therefore when the lost go to Hell, Calvinism makes it God's fault, not man's.

--If God's chosen are saved in eternity past then that conflicts with the scriptures that tell us man is born in Adam, in sin; but Calvinism would have us believe the saved are in Christ before they are even born.
So how does one explain that the saved are first "in Christ", then born "in Adam", then placed back "in Christ"?

I have never seen the scriptural proof of the above, in fact, I have never seen it addressed by Calvinism, only avoided.

--The amillennial avoids and ignores passages dealing with the physical nature of the future Kingdom.
--The Replacement Theologist avoids and ignores passages dealing with God's promise to never forget the seed of Israel.
--And the Calvinist avoids and ignores the above implications of their belief system.

So now, my friend, we hand the bat over to you.

 

Simple

God made the word so easy a child can understand it. When He said the world He means the world. He isn't going to tell us one thing and later in our maturity say this is what I really mean. that is why I truly believe God has hidden the truth from the wise and learned, because they are always trying to be smarter than God and then tells Him what He really means by that.

 

Translating the word κόσμος is more related to context than the actual definition. How John uses the word is different from how Peter or Paul might use the word, for example.

Is John referring to the planet? Is he referring to the people on the planet? Is he referring to the animals and vegetation and the rocks, and not the people, on the planet?

Context matters. For example: If I say "Run" how do you know what I mean. Do I mean "I'm going to 'run' out and get gas in my car?" Do I mean "I'm watching baseball and my favorite team just scored a 'run?'" Do I mean you should "run" because someone is about to attack you? Context matters.

I think "world" does refer to people. However, John uses the word "Propitiation" which means to remove God's wrath by a sacrifice appeasing His wrath (loose paraphrase). So, if the sins of every person have indeed been propitiated, then there is no wrath of God for anyone to suffer in Hell. Thus, you have universalism. We know there are sheep and there are goats, so this cannot be the case. Therefore, it cannot be talking about everyone without exception. It is much more likely that John is talking about everyone without distinction--in other words a plethora of people.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

Translation

We all believe that God is in control so He is in control the Holy Bible was translated the way He wanted it. If you want to go to the original language then all the meaning are right within the context. We can't pick and choose what best fits our belief system.

We can't see as universalism because God can't go against all He speaks. So He will only save believers withion the world. Those who believe God even over thier own understanding.

 

I'm sorry, but given the typos and grammatical challenges in your above post, I'm having a very difficult time understanding what you are trying to say. If I may ask, could you clarify what you are trying to say?

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

Hope this is better for you, I was doing changes after I posted.

We all believe that God is in control so He is in control the Holy Bible was translated the way He wanted it. If you want to go to the original language then all the meaning are right within the context. We can't pick and choose what best fits our belief system.

We can't see as universalism because God can't go against all He speaks. So He will only save believers within the world, those who believe God even over their own understanding.

 

chose

If God chooses people for grammar, He shouldn’t of chosen me.:tonofbricks:

 

Let me add to Archangel's comments regarding the use of the word "world."

One meaning of world is "unbelievers:
John 7:7 "The world cannot hate you, but me it hateth...."

John 12:31 "Now this is the judgment of the world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out."

John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive...."

John 15:18 "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you."

Another meaning of world is Gentiles vs. Jews:

Romans 11: 12. But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!


Another: A cross-section of tongues, tribes and nations

Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof; for thou was slain, and hast redeemed us to God by the blood out of every kindred, and tongue and people and nation.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld , and lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne.....

I'll post some others later, but I think the point is made that "world" does not always mean all people without exception.

The argument for universal atonement will have to be made some other way.

 

God loved the world

God loved the world, everyone.

When we are in Christ we are no longer apart of the world.

God loved the world, but if you don't come to Christ or turn to Him for your salvation, you will face condemnation.

All those scripture you give is truth.

I praise God that I am not apart of this world because of Jesus and I praise God that the world has the same hope as I do. That God is no respecter of person.

 

The 'world' is oftentimes referring to the ecclesiastical system:

Jesus answered him, I have spoken openly to the world; I ever taught in synagogues, and in the temple, where all the Jews come together; and in secret spake I nothing. Jn 18:20.