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Jesus sweating blood

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Humble Disciple, Jul 23, 2021.

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  1. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hematidrosis

    Jesus was so distressed in the garden of Gethsemane over His coming death that He was literally sweating blood, a medical condition known as hematidrosis, which only Luke reported on due to his background in medicine. Jesus purchased us with His unfathomable suffering, so that we’d live in obedient gratitude for the preciousness of His sacrifice.

    [​IMG]
     
    #1 Humble Disciple, Jul 23, 2021
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  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Luke did not write that Jesus sweated blood!
    . . . δε ο ιδρως αυτου ωσει θρομβοι αιματος καταβαινοντες επι την γην . . . .
    Luke 22:44, ". . . and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. . . ." Note, it was night and a full moon being the feast of the Passover. Sweat on the ground would look like clots of blood on the ground.
     
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  3. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The issue is Luke did not write, . . . δε ο ιδρως αυτου θρομβοι αιματος καταβαινοντες επι την γην . . . .
    ". . . and his sweat was great drops of blood falling down to the ground. . . ." in Luke 22:44. That one word means that He did not literally sweat blood. . . . ωσει . . . . meaning "as if." That word is not needed to say Jesus sweat blood.
     
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There is a medical condition when stress can cause veins to rupture though and have blood appear mingles with sweat!
     
  6. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Actually, most technical commentaries say it was blood mixed into the sweat, and the ὡσει is there to indicate that it was not drops of blood per se, but that the blood was mixed into the sweat. (I checked Robertson, Alford, & Vincent.)

    Gingrich's Shorter Lexicon says ὡσει is a particle showing comparison, meaning that the sentence is comparing drops of blood with the drops Jesus sweated, rather than the typical English meaning of "similar but not the same thing." If it were only sweat, I think Luke would have used ὡς.

    So I believe that the OP has it correct. This was a case of hematidrosis due to extreme stress. The condition was known to ancient medical writers.
     
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  8. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    The hematidrosis view solves some exegetical problems. There are recorded cases of people having died from the condition. Jesus almost died in the Garden of Gethsemane. Hebrews 5:7 is obviously referring to the Garden prayer: "Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared."

    So, Jesus felt himself close to death in the Garden of Gethsemane, with Satan trying to kill Him through his physical condition (Matthew 26:48). So He prayed for deliverance from death in the Garden, and was heard. God sent an angel to physically strengthen Him (Luke 22:38). He then was able to go to the cross and die for the sins of the world, fulfilling His own prophecies about that.

    This is the minority position, I know. Most think He was praying for the cup of the cross to pass from Him. I've heard that preached countless times. However, that would make Jesus praying to become a false prophet, since He had prophesied His own death on the cross. And there are those who take this position, that Jesus was praying not to die in the Garden: church father Dionysius, F. B. Meyer, John R. Rice, et al.
     
    #8 John of Japan, Jul 26, 2021
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  9. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    I am willing to consider the possibility of the Luke 22:44 comparison meaning hematidrosis due to extreme stress rather than merely a comparison of two things that are similar. However, I do not think we can make the case on the basis of Luke using ωσει. For example, that is the word Luke uses in Acts 2:3 (And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them). To apply the same standard there would make the tongues actually be fire, would it not, instead of just looking like fire? Compare also Luke 3:22; Luke 24:11; Acts 6:15.
     
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  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I agree with 37818's take on this. The time was twilight; it mighta even been dark. And Jesus was certainly sweating profusely.

    Were He sweating blood, some certainly woulda gotten on His clothes, but not one account I've ever seen says His clothes were bloody when He was busted, nor that He was bloody-faced when brought before Caiaphas or Pilate.

    Of course, all we can do is guess, as Scripture & history are silent about it except for what Luke wrote.
     
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Well, you're kind of assuming here that there is only one meaning to the word, whereas it occurs in 34 verses in the NT, and many, many times in the LXX. To prove your point I suggest that you would need to eliminate the possible meaning I'm suggesting in all of those passages. Just a quick glance shows me several places where the word is used for approximation rather than the English "like but not the same."

    In fact, I see that the primary Lukan usage is for approximation (Luke 1:56, 3:23, 9:14, 9:28, 22:41, etc.) In Acts 9:18, Luke uses it for something that he can't explain otherwise, which fits the usage iln Luke 22:44 IMO. So we could translate, "sweat that approximates (or seems to be) blood mingled with sweat."
     
    #11 John of Japan, Jul 26, 2021
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  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    The Passion Week was a very complicated time, and there are many things not recorded, I'm sure. If there was blood mixed into Christ's sweat as I believe, it would have been diluted, and not left much of a mark on His clothing. Again, you are assuming Christ's robe was white, when maybe it was red and would not show blood at all.
     
  13. OnlyaSinner

    OnlyaSinner Active Member
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    In a few hours, Jesus would have lots of blood on His clothes, with the scourging, and perhaps any blood stains in Gethsemane would be overlooked, due both to darkness and to what came later. Just a guess, as you noted.
     
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  14. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    No, in fact I was saying that it has more than one meaning, and can be used to show similarity of things that look or seem alike (as explained by 37818 in post #4 above). I noted that I have not excluded the other meaning (which would mean blood in the sweat) -- just that I don't think we can interpret this passage merely on the strength of the word choice ωσει, which is what your post #7 seemed to me to do.
    Yes, that is very interesting, and I think that the idea of "here is how we try to explain it to the human senses/knowledge" is a good point. Not that God did not know, but that there is not a good way to explain it to the average person, other than approximation.

    Some of the old hymns we sing present it as "bloody sweat", though I suppose one could argue this is just poetic use.

    Gethsemane can I forget?
    Or there thy conflict see,
    Thine agony and bloody sweat,
    And not remember thee?
    (Isaac Watts)

    Thou Man of grief, remember me,
    Thou never canst thyself forget.
    Thy last expiring agony,
    Thy fainting pangs and bloody sweat.
    (Charles Wesley)
     
  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Good post. Have a Zoom meeting. Catch you later.
     
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Assumption on your part.

    Considering the pluralities of Heb 5:7....:

    Who in the days of his flesh offered up prayers and supplications..... Heb 5:7

    ... this obviously was not the first or only time He prayed such, or even the first time in the garden of Gethsemane for that matter.

    Assumption on your part.

    He was heard. God indeed did let the cup pass from Him, He saved Him from death by raising Him from the dead.

    Compare v 39:

    39 And he went forward a little, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me: nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.

    With v 53:

    53 Or thinkest thou that I cannot beseech my Father, and he shall even now send me more than twelve legions of angels?

    ...and know that Christ COULD HAVE circumvented the cross simply by asking, but that's not what He was requesting in v 39.
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @John of Japan,

    What I presonally believe from Luke 22:44 is that Jesus' sweat falling on the ground [in the moon light] resembled [θρομβοι] clots of blood on the ground. So if there was any blood it would not be a little. Because of the use of ωσει θρομβοι I do not believe there was any blood.
     
    #17 37818, Jul 26, 2021
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  18. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Well, of course it's "days." It would sound very strange to say "day of His flesh," so it's an idiom referring to His human existence.

    I see no problem here. He prayed three times in the Garden, and that fits Hebrews 5:7 easily.


    Nope. This is based on the symbolic meaning of "cup" referring to "death."

    Being "raised" is not the same meaning as being "saved."

    Note that Jesus said "this cup," not "the coming cup" or something similar. That says to me that He was referring to the possible death of that time in the Garden of Gethsemane.
     
  19. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    We differ, and that's okay.

    Where I am strong in my belief is that there in the Garden, Jesus was praying not to die yet, whether from hematidrosis or from a physical attack of some other kind by Satan or someone else. Otherwise, if He were praying not to die on the cross, He would be praying that He Himself would become a false prophet.

    Here is Christ's prophecy in Matt. 20:18-19--"Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again."

    So Christ could not have been praying in the Garden that He may not die on the cross.
     
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Yes it is. Hebrews 5:7 and Matthew 26:39 jibes perfectly with the Messianic Psalms.

    The cup was death and His prayer was answered.

    And he went forward a little, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me: nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt. Mt 26:39

    who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 1 Pet 2:23

    Who in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear, Heb 5:7

    The statement, 'nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt', was Christ 'committing himself to him the judgeth righteously'.

    His request, 'if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me', was a supplication to 'him that was able to save him from death'.

    The fact that God raised Him from the dead shows both that His supplication was heard, and that God declared Christ to be righteous, after the Jews had unrighteously judged Him to be worthy of death

    The following passages from the Psalms are Messianic and are directly related to what is recorded in Mt 26:39 & Heb 5:7:

    He asked life of thee, thou gavest it him, Even length of days for ever and ever. Ps 21:4

    For thou wilt not leave my soul to Sheol; Neither wilt thou suffer thy holy one to see corruption. Ps 16:10

    8 I cried to thee, O Jehovah; And unto Jehovah I made supplication:
    9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?
    10 Hear, O Jehovah, and have mercy upon me: Jehovah, be thou my helper. Ps 30

    4 The cords of death compassed me, And the floods of ungodliness made me afraid.
    5 The cords of Sheol were round about me; The snares of death came upon me.
    6 In my distress I called upon Jehovah, And cried unto my God: He heard my voice out of his temple, And my cry before him came into his ears. Ps 18

    4 Pluck me out of the net that they have laid privily for me; For thou art my stronghold.
    5 Into thy hand I commend my spirit: Thou hast redeemed me, O Jehovah, thou God of truth.
    13 For I have heard the defaming of many, Terror on every side: While they took counsel together against me, They devised to take away my life.
    14 But I trusted in thee, O Jehovah: I said, Thou art my God.
    15 My times are in thy hand: Deliver me from the hand of mine enemies, and from them that persecute me.
    16 Make thy face to shine upon thy servant: Save me in thy lovingkindness.
    17 Let me not be put to shame, O Jehovah; for I have called upon thee: Let the wicked be put to shame, let them be silent in Sheol.
    22 As for me, I said in my haste, I am cut off from before thine eyes: Nevertheless thou heardest the voice of my supplications When I cried unto thee. Ps 31

    ( and there are too many other lengthy ones to include here)
     
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