This is discussion that it is not closed. It has nothing to do with any other thread (except for the one named "did Jesus wlked over the water?"). The discussion on if Jesus did or did not walked over the water started in another thread; but this present thread is not intended to revive or continue the main disscusion on that original thread. To disscus the other issue we had an own and proper thread. That thread was closed and we have to asume that the discusion on that topic was long enough and it was nothing left to say.
I will apreciate if we can focus in this very topic without going back to the topic just closed.
Did Jesus walked over the water in the fashion that all of as picture and visulize? Or is the Gospel saying something different that we can not see because of the traditional interpretation?
Jesus walking over the sea
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Goinheix, Aug 5, 2011.
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The disciples were terrified because people cannot walk on water and thought Jesus was a ghost. Had he been walking through or around the water, the disciples would have thought nothing of it.
Matthew 14:24-29
How anyone could come to the conclusion that Jesus did not walk on the water is beyond me. You may not believe that He did that, but there is no doubt that the bible says He did. -
In both Matthew and Mark, the Bible states clearly that he was walking on the water. In fact, it says it twice in both passages.
Thee are a lot of applications for this passage. But there are no differences of what actually occurred. -
Going back to how I answered you in the original thread, Amy answered the first 3 points or so that I presented.
You must also take into account what happened when Peter asked to go out on the water with Jesus: He took his eyes off Jesus and started to sink. Kinda hard to sink into the water if you're not on the water to begin with.
I also pointed out that afterwards, Jesus and Peter went on the ship, which, as pointed out, was in the midst of the sea.
So, G, now it's your turn: Why, when so many verses point out that they were on the water, you insist Jesus wasn't? -
InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
John 6:19 So when they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and drawing near the boat; and they were afraid. 20 But He said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” 21 Then they willingly received Him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land where they were going.
Notice the underlined parts. The apostles were in a boat on the water approximately 3 1/2 miles from shore. They saw Jesus walking toward them on the sea. Jesus got into the boat.
I see no way of interpreting this that Jesus was not walking on water.
Also notice in verse 21 that Jesus 'transported' the boat and the occupants instantly from 3 1/2 miles out at sea to land. Don't want to derail this thread but that is a display of omnipotence. -
Obviously we have to take the full picture and also pay attention to each detail.
The over all situation is that the disciples left early (than Jesus) in a rowing boat. The confronted strog weather that slowes them dow. The night came on and Jesus was not aware of the situation.
Eventually Jesus departed aswell. According to me he did walk over the high ground in the north coat of the sea/lake. According to the traditional interpretation he walked across the sea/lake crossing it steping over the water.
In a determined moment Jesus realizes that the boat was not advancing. Now knowing the situation he atempted to loverpass them. It is implied that by doing that Jesus was trying to assit them. But Jesus, despite trying did fail on his atempt.
Then the disciples see him. According to me Jesus was walking in the shallow waters infront of the mouth of the Jordan river. According to the traditional interpretation Jesus was walking over deep water.
Them the disciples are catch by surprise, confuse Jesus with some gost and Jesus identifies himself bringing them calm.
In consecuence, Peter ask Jesus fro him to walk over the waters. According to me, Peter did get out of the boat, believing to be in deep, and steped in the shallow. The traditional onterpretation is all hapeniong in the deep waters.
At the begining, Peter susceede to walk, but he sinks when taking hius eyes from Jesus. In that we have the same discrepancy concerning how deep it was.
Finally Jesus enters the boat and after arriving to the coast the disciples are wander and amused aboiut the fact.
This is a overall description pointing out the discrepancies. Probably my account in not much acurate but is an general description of the facts. -
Matthew
22 And straightway Jesus constrained his disciples to get into a ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent the multitudes away.
23 And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone.
24 But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary.
25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.
26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.
27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.
28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth [his] hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
32 And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.
33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Mark
45 And straightway he constrained his disciples to get into the ship, and to go to the other side before unto Bethsaida, while he sent away the people.
46 And when he had sent them away, he departed into a mountain to pray.
47 And when even was come, the ship was in the midst of the sea, and he alone on the land.
48 And he saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind was contrary unto them: and about the fourth watch of the night he cometh unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed by them.
49 But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out:
50 For they all saw him, and were troubled. And immediately he talked with them, and saith unto them, Be of good cheer: it is I; be not afraid.
51 And he went up unto them into the ship; and the wind ceased: and they were sore amazed in themselves beyond measure, and wondered.
52 For they considered not [the miracle] of the loaves: for their heart was hardened.
Jhon
16 And when even was [now] come, his disciples went down unto the sea,
17 And entered into a ship, and went over the sea toward Capernaum. And it was now dark, and Jesus was not come to them.
18 And the sea arose by reason of a great wind that blew.
19 So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they see Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid.
20 But he saith unto them, It is I; be not afraid.
21 Then they willingly received him into the ship: and immediately the ship was at the land whither they went. -
Now let see some detail.
In all three acounts, the greek word translated as walking is peripaton. peripaton is "going around", not exactly walking.
In all three acounts the greek word translated as upon, and popularly taken as over, is epi. Epi is always over the limit, just outside. The word for over it will be hyper (or huper), and is not the word used by the 3 original gospels.
In all three acount the word for sea and popiularly taken as water is thalassan wich means Sea or sea.
If we take the sentence out of the traditional context and give it to a translator without telling him that is about the Bible; he will translate as if Jesus were walking arround the coast at the edge of the Galily Sea.
The original greek text in all three Gospels dont say that Jesus were walking over the water. Not at all. That is a traditional picture we have and is very difficult to get off. -
InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Into the killfile for thee.
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In the cae of Peter, the greek word is udata, that is water.
There is a difference between Jesus walking upon the Sea and Peter walking over the water. -
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Van, is it you? I sense similar interpretation skills... :wavey:
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1. omniscience
It is God's opinion that we go by. His is written in the Word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit, preserved and given to us as the very words of God. Who is more authoritative: you or God? I vote for God.
Furthermore, how do you walk over water without walking on the water? Did he fly? That would have been more of a miracle, even more supernatural than that which was recorded.
This is a demonstration of his second divine attribute:
2. His Omnipotence No other man has such power.
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Concerning the correct translations i will come back with more acurate information. -
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What is acurate is that when Jesus knew of the situation; becose he was not aware of it; he went to try to help the disciples. Even he faikled in his intend, is him trying to help the explanation of all the situation.
The disciples didnt know where they were. They thot all the time to be in deep water. This what Jesus was trying to comunicate to them, but it was not possible for him to do it.
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