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John 12:32 in context

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by MB, Mar 11, 2019.

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  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    I gave you the answer in post 96.

    Now, can anyone be saved without hearing the gospel.
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Really? So that "many" makes "will draw all" not mean "all?" John 12:32.
     
  3. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    You gave your opinion which for your information is not the word of God. The Bible never said such a thing Post 96 is all in your imagination. Conversation is over until you can prove post 96 is scriptural
    MB
     
  4. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    In other words, you won’t answer my question because it will compromise your position.

    Good bye and good riddance,
     
  5. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    you are the one who made false claims.
    Let it be known "Sovereign grace" will not back up what he says with scripture
    MB
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Not a question, a request.
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    As with others advocating your viewpoint, it is pointless to discuss scripture. I believe scripture teaches we are called (invited) through the gospel of Christ. I believe the call reveals God's lovingkindness as indicated by Christ dying as a sacrifice for our sins, and therefore we are drawn (attracted by persuasion) to Christ. But not all invited and drawn are chosen, so drawn does not mean compelled.

    You view is although many are exposed to the gospel, because of their total spiritual inability, they cannot hear and understand the gospel, unless enabled by irresistible grace. But Matthew 23:13 teaches unregenerate men were entering the kingdom, therefore enabled to seek God, but were blocked by false teachers. Therefore I believe your viewpoint is bogus.
     
  8. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Active Member

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    I have read the whole passage, you clearly have not or at least are not being honest about what it actually says. And about drawing only the chosen how about John 6:44?

    John 6:37-40
    John 17:2
    John 17:9
    Acts 2:39
    Romans 8:28-30 (Golden Chain of Salvation)
    Romans 9
    Ephesians 1:4-6
    1 Thess. 1:4

    I could keep going but you get the idea by this point if you are honest about the texts.
     
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  9. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    He’s in my ignore now. He won’t engage anyone. It’s onesided when someone debates him.
     
  10. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    And another one just got re-added to my ignore list.
     
  11. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Active Member

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    You really need to look at the Greek. When the word draws is used it literally means dragged.

    Which is what Scripture states.

    You need to do some exegetical work on this passage. Nowhere does this verse say unregenerate men were entering the Kingdom.
     
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  12. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Active Member

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    Draw and call are not the same thing.
     
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  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Sounds great to me
    MB
     
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    That’s their problem in a nutshell. They focus on one verse and lock in on it. They offer no exegesis whatsoever. They quote a verse and say ‘case closed’ without explaining the surrounding context.
     
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  15. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Of course I'm not double minded
    MB
     
  16. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I woundn't talk if I were you. You Quote men at least I'm Quoting scripture which neither one of you have refuted.
    MB
     
  17. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Active Member

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    Gonna call you out on this one. That simply is a false statement. I have refuted you repeatedly and you haven't even engaged my arguments.
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Again Davidtaylorjr, you know as well as I do the word is used both literally (to drag, compel) and metaphorically (to draw, attract, persuade.) Claiming it has only one meaning is pointless obfuscation.

    1 Cor. 3:1 states Paul talked to new Christians "as men of flesh" using milk. Therefore men of flesh (unregenerate) can understand the spiritual milk of the gospel. Therefore total spiritual inability for all people is fiction. Some people yes (the first soil) but not for the rest.

    I could go on but it is pointless, you will claim none of the verses mean what they say.
     
  19. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Active Member

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    No sir. We are talking about two entirely different Greek words.
    You are reading so much into this text. It does not say they are unregenerate, you read that into it. It says they are living in the flesh. He is calling them to live to their calling.
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    As I said, your posts are just more of the same obfuscation I get from others holding the same viewpoint.

    For example, now "men of flesh" means "regenerate men of flesh." I kid you not, that is the claim. The opposite of its actual meaning.

    Then of course we have the deflection concerning the metaphorical meaning of draw (the Greek word in John 12:32):
    "2. metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44 (so in Greek also; as ἐπιθυμίας... ἑλκουσης ἐπί ἡδονάς, Plato, Phaedr., p. 238 a.; ὑπό τῆς ἡδονῆς ἑλκόμενοι, Aelian h. a. 6, 31; likewise 4 Macc. 14:13; 15:8 (11).trahitsuaquemquevoluptas, Vergil, ecl. 2, 65); πάντας ἑλκύσω πρός ἐμαυτόν, I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32. Cf. Meyer on John 6:44; (Trench, § 21, Compare: ἐξέλκω.)"
     
    #120 Van, Mar 13, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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