Rippon, with all due respect, I don't believe your reply answered my question. Is God being patient with them (his elect) or with himself?
The passage says He is patient with them, so my question is, "What is he waiting on from them if indeed 'it is all of God?'"
Now, I'm being patient with you, waiting for you to reply to that question. :)
John Owen On 2 Peter 3:9
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rippon, Jan 3, 2007.
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The work of salvation is all from the Lord, but he also requires men who are saved to repent and trust in faith in Christ and become saved...
He is basically waiting on His history that has already been preordained to come to passing in what we see as being History...
the elct still have to exercise personal faith in jesus in order to be saved by God, its NOT like we are puppets on His strings! -
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So you are saying God is being patient, longsuffering with the non-elect, so that the elect will not perish. Hangs together nicely. Not!
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If so, why does Paul say, "What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?"
And what he is waiting on from them? Is He waiting for them to do what He effectually causes them to do? How does that work? -
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All Scripture Citations From The 2011 NIV
Peter is referecing the elect. Go back to verse 11:"what kind of people ought you to be?"
Verse 13 ;"we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth."
Verse 14 :"So then,dear friends'
The elect are in view all along here. The Lord is being patient,not hurrying His Second Coming until all of His elect ones are gathered in. -
Eternity past, God foreordained/pedetermined those on whom he would show His grace and mercy upon, those chose them out of reprobate humanity, in order to enable them to receive by faith jesus Christ...
the Lord knows ALL whom He has elected to Eternal Life, and the time WHEN they shall receive Him as redeemer, so all things work according to His Soverign timing and Plans in History..
And God could NOT "have shoertened" the time period, as he still has the End days coming, Great Tribulation, second Coming etc and ALL those things will occur at the right times that he purposed them to be! -
Either the verse refers to all, not just the elect, or the elect are in danger of losing their salvation, which is it? -
And since God Himself has destined His very elect in Christ to be saved"none shall perish" how there even be a doubt of eternal security? -
There is no doubt that the "elect" will be saved. That is why Rippon's, et. al., interpretation is not only redundant but doesn't make sense. It is like saying: "I know my pastor is saved therefore I am not willing that he should perish and I am praying that he will repent."
Does that make sense to you?
Do you pray for the saved to get saved?
Do you pray for the saved members of your church that they should not perish but should come to repentance?
The only reason that you would do that is if you believe that they were in imminent danger of sinning, and that sin would cause them of losing their salvation. Thus Rippon's view teaches a denial of OSAS.
The verse states a desire of God. It is God's desire that all should be saved.
It is God's desire that none should perish.
It is God's desire that all should come to repentance.
What does the Bible say elswhere?
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? (Ezekiel 33:11)
The same thought is expressed here. God does not delight in the death of the wicked. He would rather see them come to repentance. It is the same thought in 2Pet.3:9
--That is his desire. Will that desire be accomplished? No. Why? Because of the holiness and justice of God, and because of the depravity and wickedness of the human heart which continues to reject the goodness and love of an Almighty Creator. -
Before you go busting rippons chops about personal attacks, perhaps you should practice what you preach?
And you're now claiming repentance for salvation? I see, when it's convenient, then you wrangle the word for your own benefit?
All of a sudden 2 Peter 3:9 is gospel, and salvific. Wow. Before it wasn't to you and you said repentance is no longer necessary, but then, you go back to Ezekiel, and pull out a verse concerning repentance, and imply it is necessary to salvation after all. Now you agree that repentance is necessary. Isn't it wonderful? :thumbsup:
Double standard friend? Certainly, from you. And all this time you argued that all they needed to do was come to belief, and that repentance was done away with after Acts. Baloney. But hey, at least your doctrine is beginning to slowly come around to being more Biblical.
Yes, we know, infinite God must reduce to your logic, or it must not be true, "eh?"
Congratulations. :wavey: -
No Calvinist denies the eternal security of the believer i.e. the elect. The Lord is waiting for the proper time so that all of His elect ones will have been gathered in. How you get that this verse somehow mitigates against the eternal security of the believer is something only you (and your cohorts)could dream up. No Calvinist thus reasons about this passage.
He's not willing means that they will not perish. No ifs,ands,or buts about it. -
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How he arrives at his conclusions is frankly startling. -
And stop the condescending personal attacks, yes?
And save your fabrications for someone else, "eh?"
You also mocked God's Grace. -
Words have meaning.
God is not willing that any should perish.
God's will is that all should be saved.
Two direct statements from Scripture about the will of God, and a third one in Ezekiel "God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked."
You unbelief here is astounding.
God desires all to be saved. The only reason they won't is because of the hardness of their own depraved hearts. -
Does "ALL" always mean all in the senses of "each and every person?"
Can it be that "All" is the desired will/permitted of God, yet the absolute is that 'some" will come?
Again, are we sure that we reading into this our "Arminian" theology, and not seeingit in light of ALL of the scriptures concerning salvation?
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