Thanks, Fonzie
John R. Rice, Bob Jones Jr., and the “Mechanical Dictation” Controversy
Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by rlvaughn, Jul 27, 2017.
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OnlyaSinner Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I think the top-down culture at BJU is different under Steve Pettit (as it was under Stephen Jones) from its earlier days. The Bible doctrines held remain much the same. I've no idea if their view of JRR is any different, however, or if they've even addressed the old (and unfortunate) dispute.
I can't recall where I purchased "Our God-Breathed Book, The Bible." My first thought was the BJU bookstore in the late 1990s (until reading upthread that it was not allowed to be sold there, at least for a while), but it may have been elsewhere and earlier. -
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Neither was Rice IMO.
HankD -
HankD -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Something that Finn got right did not really hit me until my research trip last week, when I discovered in the John R. Rice Papers a long letter from JRR to BJ Jr. in which JRR instituted the break. Before I had assumed that the break came from the BJU side. I haven't read the whole letter yet, since I have tons of files to go through, but essentially JRR was saying to BJ that they were no longer on the same road in fundamentalism.
Question: Did they have the same view of verbal inspiration? Answer: No! I asked my Greek teacher at BJU in 1971 or '72, "When there were synonyms in the original language, who chose the word to be used, the Holy Spirit or the human author?" The teacher replied, "The human author." This says to me that the JRR and BJU views were not the same. What JRR would have said is, "Both." His view was that the Holy Spirit spoke through the authors of Scripture using their own personalities and abilities, so that the result was 100% human and 100% divine. -
FollowTheWay Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
There was correspondence between Duke McCall and John R. Rice in the JRR Papers, but I didn't have time to examine it.
Dr. Paige Patterson several years ago gave an interview in which he gave John R. Rice credit for planting the seeds for the SBC conservative resurgence. We discussed this briefly before lunch. It was great to get to know him. Back in those days, everywhere Dr. Patterson went, he saw the Sword of the Lord on the desks of pastors. John R. Rice kept up with liberalism in the SBC through his many contacts in the convention, and reported it in the SOTL. -
When I saw your post - it reminded me of something.
Back in 1972-1973, I became a member of my first SBC church. (I had grown up in a GARBC church.)
The Pastor, Rev Ralph Blair (Tenn Temple & NOTS) and I both received the Sword of the Lord.
EVERY week the Sword announced churches that had left the SBC.
Every week, I would ask Pastor Blair - if he had seen the front page of the Sword that week.
With a partial frown, Pastor Blair admitted he saw the list of churches that left.
He also was a member of a group -the name was something along the line of "Southern Baptists Conservatives" -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Here's a great resource from Dr. Patterson: http://paigepatterson.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/ConservativeResergence.pdf
He writes on p. 9, "John R. Rice turned the torch of The Sword of the Lord on Southern Baptists. Sometimes he was not fair, but cleverly cobbled together with sermons on “soul-winning” and reports of revival, the reports of Southern Baptist apostasy had a general ring of truth. And while Southern Baptist leadership either excoriated their former associate or else desperately attempted to ignore this now Independent Baptist hornet, in the days of my youth I went into few offices of Southern Baptist pastors who did not have the latest issue of The Sword. Rice graduated to heaven never knowing, I suspect, the extent of his impact on the denomination he had left." -
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I have a terrible cold, and am about to go home, but first, several things I learned in TX about the mechanical dictation controversy. Maybe I can write more later in the week.
1. This was just the culmination of a split that had been brewing for years.
2. There was more to it than just the inspiration and separation disagreements. Jones Jr. had objected to Why Our Churches Do Not Win Souls (1966) by JRR for its opposition to formalism--something Jones loved.
3. The split was actually initiated in a long letter by JRR to Jones, saying JRR saw that they were going different directions, so he would no longer preach at BJU, but wanted to remain friends.
4. JRR made the point to Jones in his long letter that JRR's views on inspiration had not changed going back to Twelve Tremendous Themes (1943). (I checked this out, and it's true.) So it seemed strange to JRR that Jones was now objecting to the view.
Chew on those facts for awhile. -
HankD -
I hope you are feeling better soon. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
"The Sunday morning service particularly is a time for people to wear their finest clothes and sit with funeral solemnity and follow a printed schedule from which they dare not deviate. Only at certain times in the service may people be seated. There is a set time to stand and a set time to sit. The preacher prays a formal prayer, often one that is written out, and the choir chants a response or perhaps a four-fold or seven-fold amen!" (Ibid, 87).
When I went to BJU in 1970, I was disappointed to find they had a very formal service on Sunday mornings. All the students were required to be there, not being allowed to go to a regular church. This explains Bob Jones Jr.'s objection to JRR's book.
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Squire Robertsson AdministratorAdministrator
The difference reminds me of this old story:
Back in the day when the family first came West they lived on their homestead and were brush arbor Baptists. Then in a generation or so, they prospered enough to move into town and joined the Methodist church. The next generation really made the famly fortune and they joined the Episcopalian Church.
I think this division is rooted in the origins of the two men. JRR in the Baptists and BJ in the Methodists. My great grandfather pastored Methodist Episcopal churches in Iowa.
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