John's Gospel & Epistles

For the record, I do apologize that folks think I hate catholics. I don't. I do hate the doctrines, and it causes me grief to see them posted here.

But am I right ? Are all these fruitless discussions ? Will anything ever get solved ? Will each of us hold onto our beliefs even more tightly when told they are wrong ?

The thing is, we may even discover things we like about each other, if we weren't always telling the other he is wrong. I'm including myself. I know people don't like how I say things. And I am guilty of nastiness here.

But when I say somebody isn't worth taking to, it's in the context of discussing doctrine, not to take any personal worth away. Grant, Thessalonian, and to a point, TP and myself aare going round and round, and in two months, another 15 page thread on Mary will start, and still, nothing will get done.

I do regret some comments I have made here.

Grant, two points for you for not bringing the onion up. Every time I debate with you, I fear that being thrown out.

Thessalonian, dude, peace. OK ?

TP, we have different styles, don't we ? I'm sorry you felt offended by me.

 

Jim does an excellent job, from what I've seen in other forums. I'm not saying that Curtis is not entitled to his opinion; we all are. However, calling us stinky and a cesspool, as well as not being worthy of being talked to, is absolutely contrary to the conduct of one who is supposed to keep the peace.

God bless,

Grant

 

Grant, I believe I am the only Mod here who posts on this forum on a regular basis. I am sure that if I brought shame or disgrace to this board, i would get yanked. Apparantly, somebody does like what I do.

 

Tajic,

Y"eah, a pocket apostle, what a good idea... oh, wait, that's the Bible! "

Well then we are missing over half of it I guess since less than half of them left us their teachings in writings, wouldn't you say.

 

Curtis,

I don't think a discussion has to be resolved to be fruitful. I don't come here expecting to make a bunch of new little Catholics. I come here to make my faith known, and to defend against misrepresentations. If you continue to cling to your faith, good for you. I hope my discussions only make you a stronger Christian. Having to defend my faith makes me a whole lot stronger. I enjoy it, or I wouldn't do it.

As for apologizing, I wish you would just do that when you know you've crossed a line before I have to email the administrator. Honestly, those last comments...there was no way to take those in a good way.

Calling me a liar because I hold to the Catholic faith is not fruitful. I'm not a liar; I hold different beliefs. That doesn't make me a liar. It makes me someone who believes something different than you. I have defenses for my beliefs. You disagree with them. Fine. That doesn't make me a liar. It makes me someone who has different interpretations from you.

The goal of this board, as I see it, is to foster understanding of those who believe differently than we do, to clear up age-old misunderstandings and communications, and to share the love of Jesus with each other in our own unique ways.

Will we resolve differences? Most likely, no. That doesn't mean we won't learn a thing or two along the way. And making one step is better than making no steps.

God bless,

Grant

 

Curtis,

"Thessalonian, dude, peace. OK ?"


Don't sweat it. I am not angry with you at all. Your posts don't offend me even though from my direct nature of responding it may seem that way. Peace.

 

Curtis,

If the administrator likes the way you handled page 12 of this thread, then something is wrong. You must admit that.

God bless,

Grant

 

Grant, e-mail the administrators, please. I don't feel I crossed any line.

I am sorry your upset, but that's what comes with this board.

 

I already have. I stated that earlier.

God bless,

Grant

 

Curtis, this strikes me as "Clintoneese".

I was the first party that you labeled as "worthless" in this thread.

What particular doctrinal point were you responding to? I had only asked you questions. I had made no statement of doctrine.

But like so many times before, Curtis, I forgive you.

 

I already have. I stated that earlier.

God bless,

Grant </font>[/QUOTE]Ditto

 

Trajic,

Y"eah, a pocket apostle, what a good idea... oh, wait, that's the Bible! "

Well then we are missing over half of it I guess since less than half of them left us their teachings in writings, wouldn't you say.

 

Nope, I wouldn't say.

Rather, I'd say that what God wanted us to have we got.

 

And Ron, you were the one to point out my onion error, and then never bring it up again, and earned a heap of respect from me. But discussing doctrine with you is fruitless, due to the opposing viewpoints we have. And you do tend to change the subject a lot, and the arguments go nowhere. And I did feel you lied and changed my words around, that's why I said what I did. It is not going to do any earthly good at all talking to you about Mary. Your mind is made up, mine is too.

 

I wholly disagree. You can learn what we really believe, because you don't know. If you knew, we wouldn't be arguing, only disagreeing. Because we are arguing, we don't understand each other. That is my goal here: to promote understanding.

God bless,

Grant

 

When I was in seminary, we all had to take turns debating a given topic. Sometimes we had to defend a position totally against what we believed. We debated with vigour, no holds barred, within reason. After the debate, we all went to the kitchen and had a cup of tea. That is how it should be, even in regular life.

From time to time, we lose our kewl and let it all go out the window,,,,,,and when we sit back and listen to ourselves, we even find ourselves contemptible. Essentially, this is because we come to the table with preconveived ideas.

I don't know how to rid the mind of preconceived ideas and notions, but we do need to respect each other whilst holding firm to that which we have. I have never seen anyone changed by a debate.....at least not instantly. Sometimes,,,,,,sometimes....one will change down the road. The best we can expect is that the opponent will at least think about what is offered in debate, and that makes it all worthwhile.

Good manners and respect is always rewarded. I would hope that we will all seek to employ good manners and show respect for each other as we earnestly contend for what we believe to be true.

God bless everyone,

Jim

 

Trajic,

"Nope, I wouldn't say.

Rather, I'd say that what God wanted us to have we got. '

Oh, I agree. I was just wondering what you would say. Now I wonder how many of those people back then had pocket apostles. All that evangelizing going on you know. 3000 on the first day would have 12 spread pretty thin. So how did this sola scriptura/sola Apostle work in apostolic times? I mean, you protestants today say everybody's got to have a bible in the vernacular. All well and good and I agree that it is a good thing. But at least for those first 70 years after Jesus died noone had such a thing. Did the evaangelizing have to wait until they got a bunch of copyists to copy down all those Bibles and pass them out? Or did the Apostles have some sort of ability where the could wiz around to anyone who needed them? Or did sola scriptura come in to effect at a certain time and before that time it was (gulp) scripture (being OT which they had) + traditions handed on by the Apostles? Then maybe the theory is that this ended, Say, when John died? I know that is more questins than your used to answering but give it a go.

Blessings

 

Going thru this thread, I do not see a clear answer on how John could have possibly thought that Mary's ascension/assumption wasn't important enough to document. How did he miss it ? Why did he omit this ?

 

Curtis, I have asked sevral times now, and you have failed to answer even once.

Why do you insist on using the word "ascension" when it has been clearly and repeatedly pointed out to you that the doctrine you question is "assumption"?

Please, be kind enough to answer this very simple question.

 

Nope. How about we call it a fable. Why did John omit this fable ? Naw, that question don't make sense.

Ron, just answer it, please. Stop with the chiding already.