"just" calvinist
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by nodak, Jun 2, 2008.
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I actually do enjoy our repartie and like to examine other views as I grow in grace. I probably oughtn't argue as much as I do because there is plenty of other stuff I need to discover as I try to "pile up" the "gold, silver, and precious stones" for my "mansion." I really believe we will lay all our "wisdom" before Christ at the Bema and find out then whether it is "flamable" or whether He was able to use it to build New Jerusalem! :jesus:
skypair -
skypair -
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You Have No Shame
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Furthermore, there is a "learning curve" to one's salvation. I studied learning curves for my Masters Degree and know that the "acknowledgement" of Christ as Lord is fairly slow at the beginning. And there are a lot of doubts on one's salvation then as well. But the curve increases exponentially as one begins to receive the truth and apply it to one's life. That has been my personal experience as well, Bob. I am sure John would agree on that count.
Leave the "legalism" for the Galations experience. Trust an honest profession and help that person grow.
skypair -
I believe Paul said it best -- we ought to get beyond the "doubtful disputations" and move on to the real "main course," the "meat" of the word. :praying:
skypair -
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"The Holiness Movement and Canadian Maritime Baptists"
Ernest Reisinger was uniquely involved in fostering many branches of the new Reformed Baptist movement:
Grace Baptist Church, Carlisle, Pennsylvania
Banner of Truth Trust
Founders Ministries
Many pastors have been blessed by Reisinger's blueprint for turning a Baptist church Reformed. Among his "practical suggestions" are to:
Establish spiritual credibility in the church before making your move.
Don't tackle the whole church, first just initiate a select group of men into the doctrines of grace; they will back you up later.
Avoid using the terms Calvinism, Reformed, etc. from the pulpit.
Introduce a carefully screened book table.
Stand behind old Calvinist creeds, etc, culled from your church's archives. -
But the R-B's don't have a Presbyterian Church structure and there's no synod, with all that entails. Each congregation is independent. The denomination is really a collection of like-minded fellowships.
I think the word Reformed may be used more than you think, even though the word Calvinism may be down-played. -
Sorry. Duplicate post.
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"...some present-day Baptists (mostly Reformed Baptists) have departed from both the Bible and their Baptist forefathers. They have adopted the Presbyterian view of eldership and put the authority of the church in the hands of the eldership, thereby rejecting congregational rule. However, they have also rejected the idea of a Presbytery, or any authority, beyond the local church. They have destroyed the checks and balance established by the Presbytery. This is a hybrid view of authority of recent origin. It is really 'Baptist' Catholicism. The evils that Shepherding God's Flock is fighting are the 'good and necessary consequences' of such a mixture of contrary principles.
Here is the problem in this hybrid system: (1) If the authority of a local church is in the eldership and not the congregation (Presbyterian eldership), and (2) if there is no authority past the local congregation (Baptist congregationalism), then (3) to whom can an appeal be made when an elder acts like a tyrant? In such a situation, the eldership is a law unto itself with no accountability to anyone but its own conscience! In such a system, if several families come to the pastor with a sincere concern and he either refuses to listen or is not convinced that they are correct, those individuals are not allowed to even talk to another person after they leave his office. To do so is to be 'guilty of rebellion against God's duly authorized leadership.' Such a system is nothing but Roman popery. There is no check and balance because the eldership is ultimately responsible to no one but itself. A tyrant can have a field day and be untouchable in such a system.
As previously mentioned, either the Presbyterian view of authority or the Baptist view of authority will work very well. The object of this article is not to state which view is biblical or preferable. I have long believed that a combination of the two would be the best. However, a hybrid system that adopts a Presbyterian view of eldership and then denies both congregationalism and a Presbytery has, even if unknowingly, created an eldership that has all of the unchecked authority of an infallible pope. Eldership rule without a Presbytery is Roman Catholicism." -
I must say that I also find it rather curious how a proponent of Lordship Salvation can hold to the doctrine of Eternal Security. Does it not logically follow that if I MUST show fruit in order to provide evidence for salvation that if at some point I stop bearing fruit then I may lose salvation? Or is the point exactly that this would be evidence to my never having accepted Christ as Lord? -
That sounds very odd to me, as I know the words "reformed baptist" are used in America to mean what they mean here. Just a few examples: Heritage Church in Fayetteville, Georgia, says on its web site, www.heritagerbc.org concerning the word "reformed" (which it applies to itself):Reformed refers to the heritage of the teachings of our Lord and His Apostles which were recaptured at the time of the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century by such men as Martin Luther, John Calvin, and John Knox, among many others. These "reformers" were given grace to see that the Word of God had been encrusted with centuries of human traditions and the gospel obscured. The saving message of the grace of God revealed in Jesus Christ in the gospel had been lost. But these men, who had their own souls reborn by the power of the gospel of free grace, preached from the pulpits of Europe with tremendous power and blessing by the Holy Spirit and whole nations were changed. The key ideas of the Reformation were captured at that time in five Latin slogans:Tampa Reformed Baptist Church in Florida, http://tampareformedbaptistchurch.com ; Reformed Baptist Church of Topeka, http://reformingworship.org/main/common/home/ and many more American baptist churches that consider themselves "Reformed" (whether or not that word appears in the church name) are listed at the "Reformed Reader" church directory page: http://www.reformedreader.org/rbchurches.htm Incidentally, if you click on "Canada" there, you will find a number of Canadian Reformed Baptist churches that are nothing to do with Wesleyanism or Arminianis.
- SOLA SCRIPTURA - The scripture alone is our final authority in every area of life, because it is the Word of God;
- SOLA CHRISTI - Christ alone, in his perfect life and atoning death in the sinner's place, is the basis for our acceptance by God;
- SOLA GRATIA - The grace of God alone in Christ, not works of human merit or effort, is how God saves sinners;
- SOLA FIDE - Faith alone is the means by which sinners receive or appropriate this grace of God; and
SOLI DEO GLORIA - To God alone be the glory for saving sinners and for everything else in this life and the life to come, eternal.
There is an evangelical sermon by Pastor Al Martin (American), at: http://reformedcovenanter.wordpress.com/2007/07/05/repent-or-perish-by-pastor-albert-n-martin/ where the "blurb" says: "Here is a short Evangelistic sermon by the Reformed Baptist minister Al Martin. If you have ever heard Al Martin preach (I have, on audio cassette) you cannot possibly imagine that he is Arminian!
I could give similar examples of the use of the phrace "Grace Baptist" in America.
I have never heard Ernest Reisinger's stance as being a "Presbyterian-Baptist hybrid".
I'm confused. (Yes, I know, it doesn't take much to confuse me! :) ) -
skypair -
Salvation
Salvation is for all men because God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, so salvation is for all men and we are the messenger. It is very biblical. But to those who lean on thier own understanding.
Praise be to Jesus.
Nothing can seperate a believer but we can walk away from our salvation only those who are in Christ are the elect. Period.
The young rich ruler was chosen, elected to salvation and walked away. -
Jerome said:Establish spiritual credibility in the church before making your move.
Don't tackle the whole church, first just initiate a select group of men into the doctrines of grace; they will back you up later.
Avoid using the terms Calvinism, Reformed, etc. from the pulpit.
Introduce a carefully screened book table.
Stand behind old Calvinist creeds, etc, culled from your church's archives.Click to expand...
Thanks for thw warning, Jerome.
skypair -
skypair said:Absolutely, the church is "elect" for God's purposes during this intra-advent age, whether they are believers of just "carried along" by the direction of the church!
The members of the true Church which Christ purchased with His own blood are indeed elect. In the visible Church weeds are growing up alongside the wheat. But those weeds ( tares) are certainly not elect. No one merely being carried along in their earthy lives within a local Church is saved, hence, not elect.Click to expand...
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