I agree, but I am not sure how this responds to the argument. My point is that Hebrews 9:22 does not refer to the necessity of punishment when it refers to the shedding of blood, but the death necessary for the benefits of a will to be transferred.
Just how does the wrath of god be appeased if no penal Substitution?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Jan 29, 2020.
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"we indeed are suffering death justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.”
The uniqueness of Jesus' death is not that he alone dies, but that he alone dies unjustly, and therefore merits the reversal of death in his resurrection. -
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Furthermore, it is clear that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 is suffering unjustly, not justly as penal substitution requires. The longest New Testament commentary on Isaiah 53, 1 Peter 2:18-25, makes it clear that Jesus' death was unjust, and it is his unjust suffering that secures grace with God. -
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@Arthur King,
If you have not figured it out yet, @Yeshua1 (like many here) is not going to engage what you are saying. He is just going to say the same things over and over. After awhile you will get "your position does not need Christ to die" type of nonsense.
Having been here almost 20 years (and agreeing with you), this is déjà vu all over again and again and again.
Keep pointing to Scripture. I look forward to reading your post and absolutely agree..... so far :D
.. And welcome to the BB. -
Yes, Jesus was treated as one accursed by God, but he was treated this way unjustly. Divine justice therefore demanded the reversal of the curse, hence his resurrection. -
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Nor has He hidden His face from him; But when he cried to Him for help, He heard. (v.24)"
The Psalm depicts someone who conflicted between his knowledge of God's presence and his faithfulness, and his feelings of forsakenness, but the resolution of this conflict is a resounding affirmation of God's deliverance. No, Jesus was not forsaken by God on the cross, but he certainly was tempted to feel that way as our sin was putting him to death. -
If you are saying that our sin-debt is death, then you are saying the exact opposite of what the Bible says. The Bible says that the wages of sin is death. Wages are the exact opposite of debts. Death is therefore something we earn from God, not something we owe God. Sinners have earned these wages of death justly because of our sin, whereas Jesus received the wages of sin unjustly because he was innocent. Justice therefore demands that his wages be returned, that his death be reversed, hence his resurrection. It is exactly as the penitent thief on the cross says:
"we indeed are suffering death justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.”
The uniqueness of Jesus' death is not that he alone dies, but that he alone dies unjustly, and therefore merits the reversal of death in his resurrection. -
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The Just one became Unjust in the sight of His Father for our sakes! -
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The cup that Jesus drinks is the cup of exile. Exile to the power of evil forces, which for Israel meant captivity under foreign empires (Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome) and for humanity means exile unto death. But that which was a just punishment for Israel and humanity, was unjust persecution for Jesus. Jesus suffers our exile unto death unjustly so that justice will reverse our exile through his resurrection. Also, notice how this does away with the substitutionary argument. The logic of the narrative is not "Jesus drank the cup of exile so his people wouldn't have to" but "Jesus drinks the cup of exile precisely because his people drank the cup of exile." Isaiah 51:17 says that Israel drank the cup of exile down to the dregs. Daniel 9:11 says that Israel suffered the curse, along with the oath, because of their transgressions. There is just no way of arguing that Jesus suffers exile so that his people won't have to.
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