Justification

[KenH]

Where are the redeemed spiritual location when they undergo the "washing of regeneration" also called "the Circumcision of Christ?"

What do you mean by "where are the redeemed"?

 

[JesusFan]

To quote John Gill from an earlier post in this thread: "not the ordinance of water baptism"

Think Gill knew Far better what Pauline Justifications means then van does though!

 

[Van]

What do you mean by "where are the redeemed"?

Now you claim not to know a person has to be spiritually placed into Christ to undergo the washing of regeneration, thus made alive together with Christ.

 

[KenH]

Now you claim not to know a person has to be spiritually placed into Christ to undergo the washing of regeneration, thus made alive together with Christ.

I think you make the gospel of Christ way more complicated than it actually is. You remind me of the Corinthians.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[JesusFan]

Now you claim not to know a person has to be spiritually placed into Christ to undergo the washing of regeneration, thus made alive together with Christ.

We are regenerated by the Holy Spirit in order to then be able to receive Jesus as Lord thru faith!

 

[Van]

We are regenerated by the Holy Spirit in order to then be able to receive Jesus as Lord thru faith!

Folks, note how false teachers make claims but never explain how specific verses support their bogus claims.

Scripture says we are "chosen" through faith in the truth. Thus God could not choose to regenerate someone and give them faith. 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Scripture says we are regenerated (made alive) together with Christ, thus after God places an individual into Christ. Ephesians 2:5

Pay no attention to the false teachers who claim we are "quickened" or regenerated before we are placed into Christ.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Colossians 2:10-12 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. (emphasis mine)

"by the circumcision of Christ; not that with which Christ was circumcised at eight days old, that he might appear to be truly man, and a son of Abraham, and under the law, and to fulfil all the righteousness of it, but that which he by his Spirit is the author of, and what is before expressed"

- John Gill, Gill's Bible Commentary

Was Gill a Covenant Believer like the Presbyterians?

 

[KenH]

Was Gill a Covenant Believer like the Presbyterians?

I don't know enough about Gill in detail to answer that. My main interaction, thus far at least, with Gill is his commentary on the whole Bible when I want to see what he said about a particular verse or passage.

 

[kyredneck]

Was Gill a Covenant Believer like the Presbyterians?

I don't know enough about Gill in detail to answer that.

Recovering the Primitive Baptist doctrine of ‘Justification From Eternity’ in a non-particularistic framework

Justification as an Eternal and Immanent Act of God
From A Body of Doctrinal Divinity
Book II, Chapter V, section II.
by John Gill

John Gill and Justification from Eternity
by Charles Spurgeon

 

[kyredneck]

One must wonder why this poster of obviously false doctrine continues to post.

I wonder how you can continue to post this non-stop vitriol.

You suck Van. @KenH is a nice guy and you're hounding and harassing him with this silly show you put on. Go away.

 

[AustinC]

Folks, note how false teachers make claims but never explain how specific verses support their bogus claims.

Scripture says we are "chosen" through faith in the truth. Thus God could not choose to regenerate someone and give them faith. 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Scripture says we are regenerated (made alive) together with Christ, thus after God places an individual into Christ. Ephesians 2:5

Pay no attention to the false teachers who claim we are "quickened" or regenerated before we are placed into Christ.

I read 2 Thessalonians 2 and I do not see it saying what you are saying. It seems you make things up.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-14
Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

See the order:
1) God chose
2) The Holy Spirit set apart (sanctified)
3) We believe (exhibit faith)

Van, you keep attempting to change the order and place your own faith first, before God acts. Your prooftext even denies your assertion, Van. Just read the text and see that your text does not support your assertion.

 

[Van]

I wonder how you can continue to post this non-stop vitriol.

You suck Van. @KenH is a nice guy and you're hounding and harassing him with this silly show you put on. Go away.

Off topic attack of Van on display. And no action will be taken.
Did anyone say a poster was or was not a "nice person?" Nope
Is this poster posting non-stop copy and paste Calvinist screed? Yes

 

[Van]

I read 2 Thessalonians 2 and I do not see it saying what you are saying. It seems you make things up.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-14
Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

See the order:
1) God chose
2) The Holy Spirit set apart (sanctified)
3) We believe (exhibit faith)

Van, you keep attempting to change the order and place your own faith first, before God acts. Your prooftext even denies your assertion, Van. Just read the text and see that your text does not support your assertion.

Here we have yet another denial of scripture slathered in false charges. Typical Calvinist ploy.

Chosen through...belief in the truth is what the verse actually says, thus a conditional election. That is why the Calvinist leaning translations (NLT, NIV, ESV) all change the noun "salvation" into the verb "saved" to disconnect chosen through belief.

 

[AustinC]

Here we have yet another denial of scripture slathered in false charges. Typical Calvinist ploy.

Chosen through...belief in the truth is what the verse actually says, thus a conditional election. That is why the Calvinist leaning translations (NLT, NIV, ESV) all change the noun "salvation" into the verb "saved" to disconnect chosen through belief.

I knew you would reject the English translation because you demand salvation by works (your own self-generated faith) which causes God to save. Just like sbw, you twist God's word to mean the exact opposite of what God says. Your false teaching is well know by the brothers, Van.

 

[Van]

I knew you would reject the English translation because you demand salvation by works (your own self-generated faith) which causes God to save. Just like sbw, you twist God's word to mean the exact opposite of what God says. Your false teaching is well know by the brothers, Van.

Note Calvinists always attack persons, and almost never explain scripture. Chosen through belief demonstrates a conditional election for salvation, thus the "U" of the Tulip is false, the self-generated false doctrine of Calvinism. (See 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14)

Do I twist God's word? Nope. Does Calvinism twist God's word? Yep.

Is 2 Thessalonians 2:13 the only verse that demonstrates God chooses those "rich in faith, those that love God? Nope, see James 2:5.

 

[KenH]

Here we have yet another denial of scripture slathered in false charges. Typical Calvinist ploy.

Chosen through...belief in the truth is what the verse actually says, thus a conditional election. That is why the Calvinist leaning translations (NLT, NIV, ESV) all change the noun "salvation" into the verb "saved" to disconnect chosen through belief.

Since you believe in "conditional election", why do you think you met the "conditions" and another person doesn't? Are you smarter? More brilliant? Luckier? What?

 

[Van]

Since you believe in "conditional election", why do you think you met the "conditions" and another person doesn't? Are you smarter? More brilliant? Luckier? What?

I have answered this diversionary question dozens of times. Note the effort to change the subject and the fact scripture says our election for salvation was conditioned upon "belief in the truth."

I believe scripture means what it says. Does that mean I a smarter? More brilliant? Luckier?. What?

Scripture say our election was conditional, and that we will receive a reward for effective ministry. Calvinism or at least this Calvinist says scripture does not mean what it says.

Never-mind the reason why God credits of the faith of some as righteousness, but not others. Does that make them smarter, or more trusting; an intellectual powerhouse or filled with humility; luckier or unworthy of God's gracious gift of salvation?

 

[Van]

Think Gill knew Far better what Pauline Justifications means then van does though!

JesusFan does not know what Pauline Justification means. He denies God credits our faith as righteousness for our justification, see Romans 4:23-25.

 

[JesusFan]

Was Gill a Covenant Believer like the Presbyterians?

Yes, reformed baptist, believers baptism!

 

[JesusFan]

I don't know enough about Gill in detail to answer that. My main interaction, thus far at least, with Gill is his commentary on the whole Bible when I want to see what he said about a particular verse or passage.

was a reformed baptist, some saw him as being a Hyper Calvinist