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Featured Kingdom Theology

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JonC, May 2, 2021.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    At times it seems much of our theology and discussion centers on doctrines peripheral to God's Kingdom - not that those doctrines are unrelated or unimportant, but that their focus is elsewhere as supporting or micro-teachings. In Scripture Christ preached the "gospel of the Kingdom" and the last thing recorded of Paul in Scripture (by Luke in Acts) is that Paul journey to Rome to proclaim the Kingdom.

    Given its vital importance in Scriprure (and our faith), what are your ideas of the Kingdom of God, where do you place this doctrine in your life/ faith, and what type of "Kingdom theology" do you hold?
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I am reluctantly being drawn into the idea that the churches have drifted away from this vital teaching, truncating the gospel to a simple repeat this prayer, sign the card, raise the hand, and put off discussion of the Kingdom into the distant future.
    Postmillenial view of the Kingdom urges the Church to godly living here and now, strong individual believers, families, church life, and then spilling over into the culture, into the world.
    This is what my recent thread deals with, slowly but building a case from past ideas modified, improved, and strengthened.
     
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  4. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I love the topic. Scripture with a question or two for all. Where I believe we possibly go wrong.

    And Peter having opened his mouth, said, 'Of a truth, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation he who is fearing Him, and is working righteousness, is acceptable to Him; the word that he sent to the sons of Israel, proclaiming good news (gospel)-- peace through Jesus Christ (this one is Lord of all,) ye -- ye have known; -- the word that came throughout all Judea, having begun from Galilee, after the baptism that John preached;

    Jesus Christ. This one? 1 John 4:2 YLT in this know ye the Spirit of God; every spirit that doth confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is, and every spirit that doth not confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is not; and this is that of the antichrist, which ye heard that it doth come, and now in the world it is already.

    Mark 1:14,15 KJV Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, <See passage from Acts 10) preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

    Would not one of the first questions one might ask be; How does one get into and or enter the kingdom of God?

    Now here comes the part all of you will have a problem with yet I believe to be correct per the word of God. And why I believe the kingdom of God is not preached.

    John 3:3,5,6 KJV Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    Are those statements inclusive of the Jesus spoken of above?
    See also Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; See Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    Col 1:18 YLT And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all things -- himself -- first,

    Why does Paul who everywhere he went, he went preaching the kingdom of God Acts 20:25 when writing to the Corinthians relative to the gospel (of the kingdom) begin at first with the death and resurrection of Jesus?

    To date Jesus is the only one born of woman who has died and been raised out of the dead to die no more; Therefore 1 Cor 15:45,46 presently can only refer to Jesus. Jesus is the currently the only natural born who died and afterward was spiritual.

    Jesus the heir of all things, to date, is the only one born of woman who has inherited the kingdom of God.


    You asked for it.

    BTW deal with the scripture not just opinion.
     
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  5. Hackberry

    Hackberry New Member

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    To me, it is three things.

    It is the worldwide fellowship of all believers. Although we we do not know each other and do not speak the same languages, we live as faithful Christians and we change the world, each in our own way,

    It is heaven, to which we will go when God takes us as he has promised.

    It is the joy of salvation I feel and can share with those few Christians who I know and meet with. Our small fellowship is part of the worldwide Kingdom and we know we will live forever in the Heavenly Kingdom, but it is the most immediate and the most supportive as I live day-to-day and week-to-week.
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 25:6-9 On this mountain the Lord of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine, of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined. And he will swallow up on this mountain the covering that is cast over all peoples, the veil that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death forever; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for the Lord has spoken. It will be said on that day, “Behold, this is our God; we have waited for him, that he might save us. This is the Lord; we have waited for him; let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation.”

    Hebrews 12:22-24 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

    According to scripture, the Kingdom is now. When we enter into worship at our local assembly, we are in an embassy of our King. There we hear what our King has to tell us regarding His work to reconcile sinners to himself and our task in this reconciliation process.
     
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Kingdom is here, but not yet in its fullness until the Second Coming, so occupy and be about living and witnessing for Jesus now!
     
  8. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    The premillennial "view of the Kingdom urges the Church to godly living here and now," it might be also said. Anyone who looks to the Second Coming with whatever position ought to live a pure life. "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure" (1 John 3:2-3).
     
  9. Stephen Green

    Stephen Green New Member

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    Kingdom is at the center. The church is the Kingdom of God itself -- what else does it mean that He has made us a royal priesthood? If we are royal, then we have a Kingdom, and if a priesthood, then we minister unto God! Thanks be to God that it was His pleasure, for Christ's sake, to give us His Kingdom!

     
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  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, premillennialist's often are looking for Christ's return out of fear of not wanting to suffer persecution. They evangelize to try get as many to be "raptured" as possible...in order to escape hard times.
    The amillenialist sees a responsibility to evangelize the world so that all whom God has elected to enter the Kingdom will hear the good news and be saved from every nation, tribe and tongue. This is done without regard for fear of persecution or tribulation.
     
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  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Interesting POV, but one I never heard of until now. I never heard a sermon on or read in a book by premillennialists who teach this. I've taught through Revelation, Daniel, the Olivet Discourse (just recently), Prophecy 1 & 2 (in Japan), and am now teaching seminary Eschatology, but I never one time taught this or thought it. That makes it a straw man.

    Great. Go for it. I agree with the amillennialist in this area, having been a missionary for 33 years.
     
    #11 John of Japan, May 3, 2021
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  12. Stephen Green

    Stephen Green New Member

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    Our ministry is undergirded by full preterist eschatology. Not meaning to start a debate about eschatology, but here are my observations pastorally speaking:

    One, there is zero confusion about how to relate to Torah. We are created in Christ unto good works, of course, but these are founded on the commandment to love as He loved, rather than the 613 mitzvot.

    Two, there is more confidence in Christ himself, since he accomplished all he said he would in the Bible. He challenged us to not believe him if he didn't do all he said the Father had sent him to do (Jn. 10:38) -- we believe that he was telling the truth when he said "this generation shall not pass away until all is fulfilled," and the events culminating in A.D. 70 are the proof.

    Three, this last point really helps with evangelism. Lots of atheist smarty-pants and folks of other religious backgrounds point to the failure of the second coming in the 1st century as reason to dismiss the Bible; and they also look at the "end times madness" of pop culture Christianity as a stumbling block, even more so when they crack open the Bible and find the inconsistencies for themselves.

    Four, we have blessed assurance. We live in an eternal covenant and that the gates of hell will never prevail. The battle has been won. We don't expect the world to get any worse, heading toward Armageddon -- on the other hand, we don't expect it'll get any better without the salt of the earth, the church, and her ministry of reconciliation.

    The church is the Kingdom of God, and we are its royal priesthood. Encountering God in our midst is our highest hope, and He gives of Himself graciously.


     
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  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Yes indeed. This should be sanctification 101, regardless of which calendar we are using. I know I pressed you on this point a few years ago, and you were quick to offer what should be being taught, and common to every Christian.
    This is what occupies much of my study these days.
    I am trying to refine and make progress on how we can reach the most people effectively, and enlist them into the battle.
     
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  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Welcome to Baptistboard.
    I have come to understand that understanding the victorious nature of the Cross and the gospel of the kingdom increases a confident boldness in gospel proclamation.
     
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  15. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I have always been taught there are two Kingdoms... Say what?... Brethren let me explain... There is the church that Jesus Christ founded on earth, which is called the militant Kingdom and the church is governed by the word Of God, the Bible, where the instructions for Gods blood bought children and how to serve God and one another and our fellow man are written... There is also the triumphant Kingdom, which is in Heaven waiting for all those belonging to the Lord... A host of those saved by God, that no man can number, a vast multitude, out of all nations, kindred, tongues and peoples, not a handful and not universal either... Just those born of God alone!... The Kingdom is NOW!... Brother Glen:)
     
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  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Go to your everyday dispensational, pretrib church in the US and you'll not miss it.
    People are looking for signs of Jesus return in order to escape persecution. It is the main mantra in dispensational pretrib churches.
    That you are unaware does not make the assertion a strawman. It means you are unaware of what people are saying and doing in these dispensationalist churches.
     
  17. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Stephen, welcome to the Baptist Board.
     
  18. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Oh, give me a break. You have no clue where I've been. I grew up in such churches. I've been in many, many dispensational churches as a missionary on deputation and furlough. I go to a dispensational church now. I teach "Dispensational Theology" to college and seminary students. So yes, I know, and I believe I know the subject far better than you. Your characterization is a straw man.

    Personally, I've been premil all of my life, and dispensational for about 40 years, and never once thought the doctrine was based on fear and instilled fear. Ridiculous!

    Added later: Oh, wait, I just figured it out. I studied dispensationalism at a dispensational seminary, and they forgot to tell me that it was all based on the fear of persecution and other kinds of fear. So it's their fault. I can blame them for my ignorance. I'm so glad you set me straight. Thank you, thank you, thank you! :)
     
    #18 John of Japan, May 4, 2021
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  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Again, listen to the congregants.
    Even on this board, Pretrib people are petrified of persecution and are thinking Jesus is going to return any time now so they don't have to go through the tribulation that is coming to the United States. Spend just a little time on Facebook looking at your pretrib friends posts. Read your "Left Behind" books and see the fear of tribulation that oozes from dispensationalists in the United States. Maybe get out of the ivory tower for a few minutes and go to rural America where Christians in dispensational churches are buying more guns and praying Jesus returns before they have to use them.
     
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  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    What of Jesus' words in Luke 17 on the Kingdom of God?

    "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you" (KJV, NKJV, WEB, YLT, D-R, ERV, etc)

    The Greek that Jesus uses here, is "ἐντός", that is "within, inside". How can this be possible for these unsaved Pharisees? This adverb (ἐντός) is opposed to "ἐκτός", which has the meaning "besides, outside, beyond, without"
     
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