1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

KJV Versions.

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by 37818, Mar 19, 2021.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    13,147
    Likes Received:
    524
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That's because MODERN English doesn't use them any more.
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    51,482
    Likes Received:
    2,662
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No, but him and I sat thru a 4 hour movie on Hamlet directed by and starring kenneth Braugh, and he did word for word that story!
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    7,174
    Likes Received:
    590
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And that is an inaccuracy in translation. MLV has a superscipt ° for a plural you° else you is to be understood to be singular.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Conan

    Conan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    111
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The older NASB had an * for plural.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,091
    Likes Received:
    146
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I thought the older NASV used the asterisk only to show the English past tense used was actually the historic present in Greek?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Conan

    Conan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    111
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are probably 100% correct. My memory is not to good and I have not consulted a New American Standard in many years.
     
  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    13,147
    Likes Received:
    524
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Then I suppose you think 2 billion English users are wrong.
     
  8. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,365
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As far as I can tell, you can't access an older NASB online, and I do not presently have access to one. Checking the 1995 and 2020 on Bible Gateway (which might be different, though), there is no distinction between the singular and plural in John 3:7 -- Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ -- or Luke 22:31-32 -- “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded to sift you men like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith will not fail; and you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.” However, the 2020 has footnotes about the singular in Luke 22:32, but neither of them do in John 3:7.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    7,174
    Likes Received:
    590
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I will check. If so, I missed that note.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    7,174
    Likes Received:
    590
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well typically, understanding the Bible texts where the plural or singulars are used changes the meaning as to whom is being referred to.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    13,147
    Likes Received:
    524
    Faith:
    Baptist
    CONTEXT is everything.
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    51,482
    Likes Received:
    2,662
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The 1977 Nas was the best translation in regards to carrying over into the English Greek verb tenses!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    7,174
    Likes Received:
    590
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Context does not always tell you if a pronoun "you" is plural or singular.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    13,147
    Likes Received:
    524
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No matter who likes it or not, "you" is the pronoun we use in English for the person or people being addressed.
     
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    7,174
    Likes Received:
    590
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The translation can be made so the reader can know if the pronoun is singular or plural. MLV did so. The obsolete JW NWT did. Their 2013 edition removed that feature.
     
  16. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,365
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That's right. We probably have more cues to help us distinguish singular versus plural in context in conversation, since there is intonation, facial expression, body language, etc.. Even so, we in the South have adapted a singular-plural distinction that is very helpful. I think I always speak that way, and usually write that way as well, except in particularly formal writing. This is our y'all and you all -- so that y'all know whom we're talking about!

    In Bible reading we often won't know that we have missed the singular-plural distinction unless we research it. John 3:7 and Luke 22:31-32 that I mention above are places we won't likely suspect it in context if we are just reading through it, and don't look up the words. John 1:50-51 is another:
    Just reading that without investigating the words, we will most likely assume the "you" in verse 51 is the same "you" as verse 50 (Nathanael).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    13,147
    Likes Received:
    524
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Here in southern Ohio/western WV, we often say "youse" for plural you, as well as "y'all".
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    13,147
    Likes Received:
    524
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Every translation in any language has its faults & imperfections, & the 'you' thingie is part of most modern English translations. And there are a great many who don't know that 'ye' is plural 'you'. (Before that, ye meant 'the', E. G. "Ye knights of old".
     
  19. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,365
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think back in Missouri where my grandmother came from it was "you guys" or "youse guys." Not for sure. Also hear "you'uns" in some parts of the South; maybe it was that in SW Missouri. I think such usage shows we English speakers are somewhat uncomfortable with our lack of distinction with the word "you."
    We also use the "all y'all" mentioned as a "Super Plural" in the linked article. I hear "you lot" a good bit in British TV/media.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    7,174
    Likes Received:
    590
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well typically, in old English the ye, you and your are plurals. Thee, thy, thou and thine are the singulars.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...