1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Lewis on Atonement theories

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JonC, May 12, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 3 of 9
  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,097
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Christ bears one's sins so the sinner who accepts that gift does not receive the death of both the body and soul. How is that not a penal substitution?
     
    #41 37818, May 13, 2022
  2. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    I meant example as in that Jesus was not just showing to us how to live, as he must die in our place in order to make impossible to have the wrath of God towards us propitiated and provide the basis by which the father can now justify us!
     
    #42 JesusFan, May 13, 2022
  3. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    per YOUR understanding, but not per the teachings of the scriptures and of godly men throughout church history, gifted with understanding
     
    #43 JesusFan, May 13, 2022
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do you believe that God punished Jesus on the Cross instead of us?

    Do you believe that God transferred our sins from us and laid them on Christ?

    Do you believe that God condemned our sin in Christ so that He could forgive the wicked?

    I ask because those are examples of teachings that are in opposition to what is written in the text of Scripture (you would have to believe Scripture means something OTHER THAN "what is written" to accept those things as true).
     
    #44 JonC, May 13, 2022
  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    Does not the bible teach that there is indeed the wrath of God stored up against all of the lost in judgement day?
     
    #45 JesusFan, May 13, 2022
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The problem is you are relying on the understanding of men rather than Scripture.

    I do not have to understand why or how sins cannot be transferred from one to another on order to accept Scripture stating that they cannot.

    I don't have to understand why or how God determined that it is evil to punish the just to acquit the guilty in order to accept that passages stating it is evil is true.
     
    #46 JonC, May 13, 2022
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes. This is the Day of Judgment when the wicked will be cast into the Lake of Fire.
     
    #47 JonC, May 13, 2022
  8. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    Do you believe that God the father had imputed to Jesus all of our sins , and that due to him being our sin bearer and taking upon Himself the due penalty due to us as sinners, that the father can now impute the righteousness of Jesus towards us now?
     
    #48 JesusFan, May 13, 2022
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    You deny Pauline Imputation then of both sins and righteousness?
     
    #49 JesusFan, May 13, 2022
  10. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    And that Jesus experienced that great and terrible judgement in our stead so that we do have to?
     
    #50 JesusFan, May 13, 2022
  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    Jesus died in our place, as our substitute is the plain teaching of the scriptures
     
    #51 JesusFan, May 13, 2022
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No. I believe the Bible.
     
    #52 JonC, May 13, 2022
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Lol.....much has been said by those who say (or in this case, post) something is the "plain teaching of Scripture", so I won't go there.

    I will just say that I do not care about your (Mormons, SDA, JW, or anybody's) opinions regarding what the Bible teaches.

    I care about what is written. What did God actually say? That's what is important.

    And you cannot provide any passages supporting your faith because no passage exists.
     
    #53 JonC, May 13, 2022
  14. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    it does all throughout the bible, especially in the sacrificial system of the OT, but you reject that there is a real wrath of God towards sins, you reject substitution death, so you refuse to accept what is written!
     
    #54 JesusFan, May 13, 2022
  15. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    That is ALL what the bible states and teaches to us!
     
    #55 JesusFan, May 13, 2022
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You do not understand, therefore you are in no position to tell me what I accept or reject.

    I do believe God's wrath is against wickedness. God's wrath will be poured out on the wicked.

    But I do not accept your extra-biblical ideas (those things you say but cannot provide a single passage that says it).
     
    #56 JonC, May 13, 2022
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Here are a couple of interesting facts:

    1. You say I do not believe what Is written in the Bible BUT you cannot provide a single passage I do not believe.

    2. You say your theory is written throughout all of Scripture BUT you cannot provide a single passage stating what you believe.

    Do you not find that just a little odd?
     
    #57 JonC, May 13, 2022
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    What i find really odd is that all but you see that in the Isaiah 53 passage, Jesus is shown to be the suffering and substitution servant of Yahweh there!
     
    #58 JesusFan, May 13, 2022
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,496
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You mean "most on this board" (as most Christians do not).

    I do not find it odd at all. For most of my life I also read that into the text as something taught.
     
    #59 JonC, May 13, 2022
  20. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    6,425
    Likes Received:
    505
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If we are to be saved it is still by the grace of God. The condition is faith but only God can save.

    Both the texts you reference say that we are saved by grace. Am I overlookig something in your argument.
     
    #60 Silverhair, May 13, 2022
Page 3 of 9
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...