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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jun 10, 2021.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Note no comment made concerning "will be" versus the bogus contention "were." Just an arm wave that something elsewhere supports the Calvinist fiction. Folks, read Romans 5:19...
     
    #61 Van, Jun 12, 2021
  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    So Jesus atonement is not effective for his children until the children are made alive with Christ by the grace of God. Is that your assertion?
     
    #62 AustinC, Jun 13, 2021
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  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another "change the subject with endless questions" ploy.
    Did anyone use the term "Jesus atonement?" Nope
    Why not say Jesus' death on the cross? Because obfuscation is the Calvinist game.
    When is the reconciliation provided by Christ's death on the cross "effective" for an individual? When an individual is placed into Christ and not before.
    Does that mean Christ providing the means of salvation with His death on the cross was not "effective?" Nope

    On and on, the Calvinists post to hide this basic truth, we are made righteous when God alone puts us into Christ.
     
    #63 Van, Jun 13, 2021
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You never answered the question. Please answer the question rather than generally castigate those you call "calvinists." Here is the statement and question. What say you?

    "So Jesus atonement is not effective for his children until the children are made alive with Christ by the grace of God. Is that your assertion?"
     
    #64 AustinC, Jun 13, 2021
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  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Same old, same old...

    On and on, the Calvinists post to hide this basic truth, we are made righteous when God alone puts us into Christ.
     
    #65 Van, Jun 13, 2021
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I take it you consider this your answer to the question, which means you do not consider Jesus atonement to be effective for his children at the cross, but instead consider it effective only after God makes a person alive with Christ.

     
    #66 AustinC, Jun 14, 2021
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  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Calvinists consistently and systemically misrepresent the biblical views of others.
    Here is what I said, "Does that mean Christ providing the means of salvation with His death on the cross was not "effective?" Nope"
    And here is how it was misrepresented, "...you do not consider Jesus Atonement to be effective..."

    Same old, same old...

    Returning to topic,
    How are we made righteous? By means of God crediting our faith as righteous, and on that basis putting us into Christ where we undergo the circumcision of Christ.
    When are we made righteous? When God puts us into Christ and we undergo the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration.
    Were we made righteous when Christ died on the cross? Nope See Romans 5:19 which says will be not were...
     
    #67 Van, Jun 14, 2021
  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Van, I am on topic with my inquiry. You are avoiding it. I suspect this is because you know the answer and the answer disproves your assertion.

    It is also telling how you cannot directly address me, but defer to a third person response.
     
    #68 AustinC, Jun 14, 2021
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  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Calvinists consistently and systemically misrepresent the biblical views of others.
    Here is what I said, "Does that mean Christ providing the means of salvation with His death on the cross was not "effective?" Nope"
    And here is how it was misrepresented, "...you do not consider Jesus Atonement to be effective..."

    Same old, same old...

    Returning to topic,
    How are we made righteous? By means of God crediting our faith as righteous, and on that basis putting us into Christ where we undergo the circumcision of Christ.
    When are we made righteous? When God puts us into Christ and we undergo the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration.
    Were we made righteous when Christ died on the cross? Nope See Romans 5:19 which says will be not were...
     
    #69 Van, Jun 14, 2021
  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I notice you will not address me personally and will not address my question. All readers can see your tactic.
    Since you cannot actually address me and the question I asked, I determine you are avoiding and/or unable to answer the question of atonement and righteousness.
     
    #70 AustinC, Jun 14, 2021
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  11. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Is Rom 5:19 expressed well by Paul in Phil 3:9 relative to what you are saying?

    and be found in him, <the fut of Rom 5) not having my righteousness, which is of law, but that which is through faith of Christ , <the passive of Rom 5) -- the righteousness that is of God by (unto) the faith,

    Because of the death of Christ you can be found in the righteousness of God.

    ='s 2 Cor 5:21

    Application? There is a thread titled Hebrews 9:27

    For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. then -- the end, 1 Cor 15:22,23, part 24

    Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. Acts 15:14
    16 After this I will return, (Seen in his own order, above, at his coming) and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

    From Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (See, in his own order, above, then- the end)

    Acts 15:17

    V 18

    Phil 2:10,11 ?????

    Your thoughts Van?
     
    #71 percho, Jun 14, 2021
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you a Roman Catholic, or Greek orthodox then?
     
    #72 Yeshua1, Jun 14, 2021
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another you, you, you post in flagrant violation of forum decorum...

    Calvinists consistently and systemically misrepresent the biblical views of others.
    Here is what I said, "Does that mean Christ providing the means of salvation with His death on the cross was not "effective?" Nope"
    And here is how it was misrepresented, "...you do not consider Jesus Atonement to be effective..."

    Same old, same old...

    Returning to topic,
    How are we made righteous? By means of God crediting our faith as righteous, and on that basis putting us into Christ where we undergo the circumcision of Christ.
    When are we made righteous? When God puts us into Christ and we undergo the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration.
    Were we made righteous when Christ died on the cross? Nope See Romans 5:19 which says will be not were...
     
    #73 Van, Jun 14, 2021
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    When and if God puts an individual into Christ, they then undergo the washing of regeneration (made alive together with Christ).
     
    #74 Van, Jun 14, 2021
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Calvinists ask loaded questions to deflect from the topic at hand...

    Calvinists consistently and systemically misrepresent the biblical views of others.
    Here is what I said, "Does that mean Christ providing the means of salvation with His death on the cross was not "effective?" Nope"
    And here is how it was misrepresented, "...you do not consider Jesus Atonement to be effective..."

    Same old, same old...

    Returning to topic,
    How are we made righteous? By means of God crediting our faith as righteous, and on that basis putting us into Christ where we undergo the circumcision of Christ.
    When are we made righteous? When God puts us into Christ and we undergo the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration.
    Were we made righteous when Christ died on the cross? Nope See Romans 5:19 which says will be not were...
     
    #75 Van, Jun 14, 2021
  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Address me personally, Van.
    We are made right with God by grace alone, justified via Christ's atoning sacrifice alone, confirmed by the authored faith of Christ alone.
     
    #76 AustinC, Jun 14, 2021
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  17. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    From your post; When and if God puts an individual into Christ,

    I believe the following then takes place.

    Romans 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” ----- Which puts one into Christ, into his body, the church. Eph 1:22,23 and all things He did put under his feet, and did give him -- head over all things to the assembly, which is his body, the fulness of Him who is filling the all in all, ------
    Where with patience and confidence we await ; From Romans 8:23 adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body;


    IMHO - adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body; is the washing of regeneration, which is brought about in time by the Spirit of adoption. See Romans 8:11

    I understand all or most of you will disagree with that, the very reason for IMHO.
     
    #77 percho, Jun 14, 2021
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are we imputed the righteousness of Jesus, or infused with His grace then?
     
    #78 Yeshua1, Jun 14, 2021
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Adoption refers to our bodily redemption at Christ's second coming.
    We do not "receive the Spirit of adoption" (referring to our indwelt Holy Spirit Helper) until after God places us in Christ, thus we are sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit.

    Adoption has absolutely nothing to do with the washing of regeneration that occurs when we are made alive as a new creation in Christ Jesus. Only after we are made righteous are we indwelt.
     
    #79 Van, Jun 14, 2021
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Again, the nonsense is posted. Romans 5:19 is crystal...
    How are we made righteous? By means of God crediting our faith as righteous, and on that basis putting us into Christ where we undergo the circumcision of Christ.
    When are we made righteous? When God puts us into Christ and we undergo the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration.
    Were we made righteous when Christ died on the cross? Nope See Romans 5:19 which says will be not were...
     
    #80 Van, Jun 14, 2021
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