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Featured Made, not Declared

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jun 10, 2021.

  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Let's look at Romans 5.

    Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Notice that nowhere in Romans 5 do you read what Van claims.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Folks, read the above highlighted in red.
    Now here is what I said: Were we made righteous when Christ died on the cross? Nope See Romans 5:19 which says will be not were...

    Thus just another blatant false claim by the advocate of Calvinism...
     
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Interesting how you are snipping the Bible and adding to the Bible what is not stated. No wonder you have a false doctrine. You make it up and add it into the text.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another material false statement by the advocate of falsehood...

    How are we made righteous? By means of God crediting our faith as righteous, and on that basis putting us into Christ where we undergo the circumcision of Christ.
    When are we made righteous? When God puts us into Christ and we undergo the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration.
    Were we made righteous when Christ died on the cross? Nope See Romans 5:19 which says will be not were...
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are we made righteousness or declared to be such by God?
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Twaddle
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    well. that question and issue caused the reformation, so neither Twaddle nor malarkey!
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Another off topic post allowed against the express wishes of the OP
     
  9. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Which is it then, Imputed or infused righteousness?
     
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Romans 5:19 ESV
    19For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.

    Now watch Van change what God has declared...
     
  12. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Romans 5:19 NASB
    For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
     
  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    KJV - Romans 5:19
    For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    Notice that none of these translations say what Van says.
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

    Romans 4:23-24 Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him,
    but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead

    Colossians 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism, you also have been raised with Him by means of your credited faith in the divine power of God who raised Jesus from the dead.
     
  15. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Let's look at these passages, shall we?

    Romans 4:1-17,23-25 ESV

    What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.” Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised. For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

    Let the reader understand and thus know that Romans 4 teaches against Van's assertion of man created faith and righteousness.

    Now for Colossians 2:9-15.

    For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.

    The reader can see that Van's claim of humans generating their own faith and being declared righteous for generating their own faith is clearly not taught anywhere. Thus the reader can dismiss Van's teaching as false and one in which the child of God should flee.
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The highlighted in "red" claim is another material false statement. Pay no attention to this fount of falsehood.

    Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

    Romans 4:23-24 Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him,
    but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead

    Colossians 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism, you also have been raised with Him by means of your credited faith in the divine power of God who raised Jesus from the dead.

    The claim that the lost are unable to put their trust in the gospel of Christ is self-generated faith is hogwash. Scripture refers to "your faith, his faith, my faith" and the denial we can put faith in something (valid or invalid information) is a denial of scripture.

    God requires the lost to believe in the One He sent.
    God provides the information in which to believe.
    God gave humanity the capacity to believe in information.
    The our faith is "generated" by God for God.
     
    #96 Van, Jun 16, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are we when saved declared or made right?
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another endless question obfuscation of truth, as the OP answered this.
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Unable or unwilling to answer, eh?
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    One falsehood after another us allowed to be posted to derail biblical discussion.

    Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

    Romans 4:23-24 Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him,
    but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead

    Colossians 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism, you also have been raised with Him by means of your credited faith in the divine power of God who raised Jesus from the dead.

    The claim that the lost are unable to put their trust in the gospel of Christ or is self-generated faith is hogwash.

    Scripture refers to "your faith, his faith, my faith" and the denial we can put faith in something (valid or invalid information) is a denial of scripture.

    God requires the lost to believe in the One He sent.
    God provides the information in which to believe.
    God gave humanity the capacity to believe in information.
    Thus our faith is "generated" by God for God.
     
    #100 Van, Jun 16, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
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