I don't doubt your sincerity but "truth" is not determined by sincerity but by correct Bibilical analysis and your interpetation of "age" in Matthew 28:20 is not sustained by Matthew's use of that term. Don't go running to Hebrews or some other context outside the Biblical writers own use of the term.Different writers in different contexts use terms differently but Matthew's usage of that term does not support your interpertation of Matthew 28:20.
Moreover, the immediate context of Matthew 28;19-20 will not support your intepretation of that term. There is one main verb modified by three participles. The main verb describes WHAT they are commanded to do while the participles describe HOW it is to be done. You simply cannot pick and choose what you want! The words "until the end of the age" is descriptive of all three participles, not just one.
Mark's Great Commission
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by John of Japan, Nov 29, 2016.
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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asterisktom Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
In short, nothing spoken of in this passage came to an end. The only thing that did come to an end was that age itself.
Additional thought: In a different post you accused me of "running" to other books in the Bible and not staying with one book. I don't call it "running", but "cross-referencing". I realize that each author does tend to favor certain word-nuances (for want of a better term). But I think you are taking this to extremes if you have a problem with my not staying in Matthew. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Look at the passage again. It says "the eleven," not "the apostles," or even "the eleven apostles." Furthermore, there is nothing in the context to indicate they are considered apostles at the time of Mark's GC. Mark only uses the term one single time, way back in Mark 6:30, after they returned to Christ from being "sent out." However, in Mark 16 they are backslidden, having doubted the resurrection and abandoned their calling. In the very same verse that says "the eleven," Jesus "upbraided them."
When a pastor (or apostle) abandons their calling, no one calls them "pastor." It is the same in this passage. They were not worthy at that time to be called apostle.
And my views are not "pre-inherited" (that's not really a word, you know). They are my own views, learned from hundreds of hours of Scripture study. My eschatology is somewhat different from that of my father and grandfather. And I seldom consult commentaries, but prefer to go to the original languages on my own.
So, next time please leave your preconceived notions of what I am behind, and judge rightly. -
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Call our responsibility to spread the gospel whatever you wish K.
A rose by any other name smells the same.
:)
HankD -
Christ clearly says what the GREAT-EST command is--Love God with all your heart.
I haven't heard anyone call it the "GreatEST commission," however it is a GREAT commission. Preaching/Teaching, Baptizing, Making Disciples is pretty important, thus "Great" would be a proper fit, IMHO. -
Repeat: Why do those of you who do not support the GC (given to the apostles) practice the command to baptize those who hear and believe the gospel?
My apologies if someone has made an attempt to answer - please give me the reference.
HankD -
I guess I'm missing your point. -
Which according to some is given only to those which Christ authorized in the days of His flesh.
HankD -
There's a favorite Old School hymn which chorus is:
"The Lord has been so good to me,
I will on Him depend.
And everyday where ever I be
I would His truth defend'
From my first post; to quote JoJ more fully:
"..How do we best obey Mark's GC? In other words, how do we get the Gospel to "every creature"? Is it even possible? Or is it one of those impossible commands we are to strive to do until we die, never quite making it? (For example, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect."..."
To which I replied:
"Not only possible but a done deal before the NT was even completed:
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24
So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world. Ro 10:17-18
5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in the heavens, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel,
6 which is come unto you; even as it is also in all the world bearing fruit and increasing, as it doth in you also, since the day ye heard and knew the grace of God in truth;
23 if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister. Col 1:23
25 Now to him that is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which hath been kept in silence through times eternal,
26 but now is manifested, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations unto obedience of faith: Ro 16"
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[Personal attack edited]
10 For as the rain cometh down and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, and giveth seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isa 55
37 For no word from God shall be void of power. Lu 1
Now, observe God's word:
8 But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 1
He didn't say "I want you to try" or "give it your best shot". He told them that they indeed would be His witnesses unto the uttermost part of the earth, which they were.
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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HankD -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I kept meaning to get back to this thread. There is one thing left unsaid, the multiplication principle. If the soul-winner/evangelist/pastor seeks to reach every single soul ("every creature") in a given area himself, it is possible but daunting. On the other hand, if as part of the discipleship process he teaches the new believer to be a soul-winner, and that one is trained to teach others to do the same, "every creature" can be reached.
I believe this is how Paul reached the world of his day, not by preaching to every creature himself, but by training others to do so, thus multiplying the effect rather than just adding.
And now an anecdote. In Japan, which is a Gospel-resistant country and therefore there are few converts, I would try to reach every house in an area one way or another to obey Mark 16:15. I was on my last day to reach the Yokodai area of Yokohama, around 9000 homes.
One house was on a hill, with a very long staircase of 6" stairs, but my feet are 12" size 12s. I ran up, but then on the way down, 3 steps at a time, I twisted my ankle terribly. Fortunately I was out on a motor scooter and was able to get home easily, but I was out for days. Believe me, though, I finished those 9000 homes after my ankle got better, thus doing my best to get the Gospel to "every creature." -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
This kind of attack (and your other insult on this thread) are exactly why I keep you on "Ignore." And now, back you go. -
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