A few years ago David Jeremiah did a series on prayer, and he made mention of this verse. He said that prayers that go along the line of "Heavenly Father...Lord...Lord...Lord...Lord" would be a perfect example of this. He says that when we talk to another person, we normally don't repeat their name--so why should we consistently repeat our Creator's name when we pray?
Meaningless repetition (from Matt 6:7)
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Speedpass, Jan 4, 2010.
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Depends on the intent.
Some folks do that much like "uh," or "you know" invades our conversation.
Meaningless, as in vain...that's something else. That's praying to impress. I know of many who might use the title "Lord" repeatedly who are authentic prayer warriors. -
I don't think He cares how many times we reverence Him, just if we mean it. -
The words are "meaningless repetition." English language speakers get caught up on the word "meaningless," because we use this word in a euphemistic way. That is not the intent of the words here. The Phrase means what is being spoken is:
#1 Meaningless. In other words, they are not really saying anything. It is just a noise: in fact, the Greek "word" here is not even a word. It what you call onomatapoiea. It is a sound, like saying "The fan went SWISHHH." Specifically, it is "Bata."
#2 Repetitious. Over and over again.
I believe that this is referring to the practices of the time, which used glossolalia, or "Language of the Gods" to speak to deity. They would chant meaningless sounds over and over again (kind of like the modern "tongue" movement). Saying "God" or "Lord" is not meaningless, and hence, is not what Jesus was talking about. -
"Meaningless repetition" most likely refers to the pagan practice of repeatedly "chanting" phrases in an effort to "evoke the diety" or "spirit" into doing what they want them to do.... either bringing blessing on themselves or curses on their enemies.
So, the intention of the heart is at work here. If a person repeatedly says "Lord, Jesus" during the prayer because they believe they are being respectful, then I don't see a problem. Let Holy Spirit and their own conscience guide them.
If, however, someone believes God is "obligated" to respond in a certain way because they say certain words or pray certain prayers (i.e. the "word of faith" folks), then I believe this falls into the "meaningless repetition" category.
peace to you:praying: -
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I think meaningless phrases and words can be in view.
When someone repeats a word;
when someone parrots a word or phrase ("travelling mercies" and the like) -
The point I was trying to make, that I believe Jesus is trying to make, is that the pagans are attempting to force or "evoke" a response from their diety by what they say.
In contrast, Jesus gives us a model prayer that tells us to approach God with humility (instead of attempting to force or evoke a response), seek His will on earth (instead of our own), trust Him to give daily necessities (not great wealth), asking for forgiveness for our own sins as we have forgiven those who sin against us (instead of asking the diety to curse our enemies).
peace to you:praying: -
Therefore while you are partially correct in that it 'can' and in some cases does extend to such areas, the context of this passage is specifically speaking of the pagan practices of chanting or saying phrases over and over in order to get their requests granted.
Also John Gill who was quite good with his Greek states this:
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I'm not comfortable with the idea of my critiquing people's prayers...saying, "You said 'Lord' too much...God won't hear you."
That's an stretch past what Scripture is talking about, IMO. -
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I read an article quoting Gary Thomas, who wrote in his book Secret Pathways: