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More about eschatology and preterism...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by robycop3, Oct 15, 2017.

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  1. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    Yeah actually armies surrounding Jerusalem in the parallel passage was the AoD. Already happened.
     
    #101 prophecy70, Oct 22, 2017
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  2. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    They built the previous tools with modern tools?
     
    #102 prophecy70, Oct 22, 2017
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  3. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    Is that English letters or Greek letters?
     
    #103 prophecy70, Oct 22, 2017
  4. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    Spiritual letters -
    2 Cor. 3:3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.​
     
    #104 Covenanter, Oct 22, 2017
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  5. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    Spurgeon did. Wm Whiston translator of Josephus did. He said that in his time Jerusalem is mainly empty awaiting the return of its original inhabitants.
    Does that answer your question? I think Mark Twain also commented on Jerusalem but I cannot remember his conclusions.
     
    #105 David Kent, Oct 22, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  6. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    Oh No?
    • 2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    • 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
     
    #106 David Kent, Oct 22, 2017
  7. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    #107 agedman, Oct 22, 2017
  8. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    @robycop3
    In Daniel 2 we have the great image giving the timeline in its symbols of the main events of world history. Early pretribulationists taught either that the image was cut off at the knees, others at the ankles. Which do you believe?
     
    #108 David Kent, Oct 22, 2017
  9. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    It is usually referred to as the mystic temple. It probably refers to the current temple, the Church of Christ.
     
    #109 David Kent, Oct 22, 2017
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  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    No, it wasn't. It was the sign that JERUSALEM was about to be "desolated, NOT that the temple was gonna be profaned.
     
    #110 robycop3, Oct 22, 2017
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Well, that man hasn't yet come, or at least, yet been made manifest.
     
    #111 robycop3, Oct 22, 2017
  12. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Know what "available" means?
     
    #112 robycop3, Oct 22, 2017
  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Whichever you care to believe or understand.
     
    #113 robycop3, Oct 22, 2017
  14. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    What is also (beside the size) true about the Ezekiel temple in comparison to all others, is what is left out. Look carefully at the diagram of the Herod temple. See all the various grouping accommodations that do not occur in the Ezekiel temple?

    Here is another graphic of the Ezekiel temple to get a visual.

    Graphic of Ezekiel temple

    And here are graphics of the Herod temple to use in comparison. Can you ask, "What is being left out of the Ezekiel temple?" "Why?"

    Image Gallery Herod's temple plan

    The thinking that the temple destroyed by the Romans is the last temple, ignores the specificity of Prophecy.

    If one can discredit one small smudge of prophecy, then doubt can be cast over the veracity of all.

    If the prophets were precise about the first advent, they can be held equally responsible concerning the second, the events, and the buildings.
     
    #114 agedman, Oct 22, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  15. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    First, it would be well to document were you read that the Ezekiel temple is referred to as some "mystic temple" - whatever that means.

    Second, there is not a single Scripture that place the Ezekiel temple as that of the Church of Christ.

    The fact that the Holy Spirit abides IN the believer making the believer a temple, and as believers gather they are as a group the temple, and there are verses of such, is in no manner to be taken as some grand building design designated to be constructed by Ezekiel.

    Beside, if one is to accept that thinking, then there are no believers in the final eternal home where John states there is NO temple.
     
    #115 agedman, Oct 22, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Scripture sez the stone cut without habds struck the statue on its feet, crushing them.

    Daniel 2:34 You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

    Now, this statue was in the form of a man. The head of gold was its finest part, and Nebuchadnezzar had become, by God's will & power, the greatest king up till that time, whose kingdom was full of learning. Then came the Medo-Persians, whose kingdom was less-noble, and which supported Neb's head-of-gold kingdom, even though they'd made it defunct. Then came the Greek kingdom of brass, less-noble & more-evil than those that preceeded it. Then came the kingdom of Rome, strong as iron, just as iron is harder & stronger than gold, silver, or brass. Rome ruled over the 3 previous kingdoms. Then came the feet of iron & clay mixed, which was not as strong or pure as the previous three, but which still supported them all. This will almost certainly be the kingdom of the "beast", as the KINGDOM OF GOD, the stone cut without hands, hasn't yet crushed the feet, toppling the whole statue, which was dashed to dust against the stone, which then filled the whole earth.

    These kingdoms are also depicted in Daniel 7. The first was like a lion & had the wings of an eagle, indicating power, nobility, and almost-effortless movement. Then its wings were removed & it stood as a man, with a human mind. That's cuz God was revealed to Nebuchadnezzar, who began to worship Him after his 7 years of insanity.

    The 2nd beast resembled a bear, with one side raised up, & 3 ribs in its mouth. This represented the Medo-persian kingdom, with one part dominant, while the 3 ribs represented Babylon, Lydia, & Egypt, which were "devoured" by the Bedo-persians.

    The 3rd was like a leopard, except it had 4 wings & heads. This represented the Greex, who were known for the swiftness of their armies & conquests, & which was divided into 4 lesser kingdoms upon the death of Alexander The Great.

    The 4th represented Rome, which conquered or absorbed all the others & was much-stronger & larger than any of the others had been. Without going into much detail, I'll say its horns represented the coming kingdom of the antichrist, which Jesus will destroy.

    And in Daniel 8, there's the vision of the ram, with one horn greater than the other, which represents Medo-Persia, & the goat which swiftly attacked & defeated the ram & became great til its one prominent horn was broken off & 4 more grew in its place, representing the Greek kingdom of Alex til he died & his 4 generals divided up his empire.

    A common thread in all this is that those kingdoms all ruled the Jews, and that, from them, a future kingdom will arise, greater than all the previous kingdoms symbolized, which will rule all of them, and be destroyed by Jesus at His return. All those earlier kingdoms are easily seen in history, but obviously, the last one hasn't yet come.
     
    #116 robycop3, Oct 22, 2017
  17. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    You do wriggle don't you?

    How can Jerusalem be desolated without the temple being profaned. It was profaned by the Zealots who filled it with arms and used it as a base and murdered any who tried to enter. The temple was profaned when the Roman soldiers sacrificed to their standards in the Holy place. It was profaned when it was levelled to the ground.
     
    #117 David Kent, Oct 22, 2017
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  18. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    Not so. It is not the believer that is the temple, but the Church.
    • 2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    Many more scriptures if you with to look.
     
    #118 David Kent, Oct 22, 2017
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  19. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    The reference is to Exodus 29.45 where we read
    • 45 And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God.
    • 46 And they shall know that I am the LORD their God, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them: I am the LORD their God.
    Paul takes this verse to apply to the Church.
     
    #119 David Kent, Oct 22, 2017
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  20. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    It was not profaned to the degree that one's entering it & proclaiming himself to be God will profane the temple to come.

    Now, care to try to explain how events preterists SAY have already happened were NOT recorded in history, especially given their enormity?
     
    #120 robycop3, Oct 22, 2017
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