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"My body, my choice," I believe we can say the same here!

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Salty, May 4, 2021.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There is natural global warming and cooling built into creation by God, but we are not the main agent of that!

    And evolution of Darwinism and his ilk is plain bogus!
    Evolution in species, NOT into new species!
     
  2. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    I don't have ANY dead babies on my conscience. I have been consistently pro-life. I'm sorry that you think you are responsible for some of them. You can be forgiven and more forward in grace.

    Let's get something straight. You seem believe you know things about me and can make judgments based on your imagination and what you believe -- ASSUMING that I must believe the same way as you. If I believed like you, I would act like you. Since I don't act like you, please do me the courtesy of recognizing that I might have very good reasons for my beliefs that you may not understand or agree with. My beliefs have been shaped over 35 years of serious Bible study, readings in history, and analysis. I don't simply go with what is popular.

    You seem to think I take the issue lightly ("a little problem for you"), but I do not. You need to deal with that, since you are making a false charge against me.

    After the final judgment, you will either be consumed in the Lake of Fire or live on the restored Earth. I realize that runs contrary to the "go to Heaven forever" version of Christianity that is extremely popular in the United States, but that version is unbiblical.

    The dwelling place of John 14 is temporary disembodied lodging until the resurrection and judgment of all humankind (see Revelation 20:11-15).

    Since you didn't realize that humankind will either be in the Lake of Fire or upon the restored Earth, you may be wrong about other things too.
     
  3. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    So you admit that it is not "a lie." That's good.

    And how do you know this? DNA and the fossil record tells a different story.
     
  4. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Ok, not a hypocrite, but she and the doctor are murders, despite the “legality” in this country.

    The truth that a baby in the womb is a human being doesn’t depend on what the woman or the doctor or 5 justices on the Supreme Court believe and they will all give an account before the only Judge that matters.

    I knew a prosecuting attorney who told the story of a case where a man killed an American of African descent and then argued in court he wasn’t guilty of murder because he didn’t believe he was killing a human being: he believed he was an animal, like a dog or a deer.

    He was convicted of murder. His beliefs didn’t change the truth he had killed a human being.

    peace to you
     
  5. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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  6. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    If the unborn are persons, then the 'charge' would likely be manslaughter.

    Yep. Prior to the 14th Amendment, that argument would be solid. Native Americans had to wait until the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 to be recognized as persons who were covered under the 14th Amendment.

    That's one of the reasons demeaning names and imprecise allegations are so damaging. It dehumanizes the person referenced. And for anti-abortion folks to label everyone who has an abortion as a "murderer" is not pro-life either.

    As he should have been. He could not claim ignorance because the law was made clear, despite his personal opinion.
     
  7. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    very interesting
     
  8. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    I don't have ANY dead babies on my conscience. I have been consistently pro-life. I'm sorry that you think you are responsible for some of them. You can be forgiven and more forward in grace.[/quote]
    I mentioned about your past because you talked briefly about it in one of your posts in another thread.[/quote]
    I don't know what you are talking about.

    Trump is not concerned about people dying. He never has been.

    Republicans have had 40 years to overturn Roe v. Wade, but that hasn't happened. Even if they could do it, it would make little difference. If anything, it might make the situation worse.

    I appears you can't comprehend that:

    (1) a Christian can be something other than a one-issue voter.
    (2) a Christian might recognize that the strategy of voting in ways to nominate certain types of Supreme Court Justices is doomed to failure and only makes the Christian church a vassal of one political party.
    (3) a pro-life position is more than just being anti-abortion.
    (4) a Christian might be called by Jesus NOT to vote for an antichrist agenda (Trumpism).
    (5) due to my convictions, I would be actively rejecting Jesus if I supported Trump.
    (6) as a Christian leader, I am responsible for not being a hypocrite about the issue of character to hundreds of people whom I have influenced (and continue to influence) in the faith.

    No, it's just irritating because you are trying to bully me. In your arrogance, you cannot imagine that I could have a valid position, so you are trying to annoy me with your photos and constantly trying to draw every discussion I'm in toward abortion.

    If you loved Jesus as much as you hate the concept of abortion, you would be quite influential. But all you seem to know how to do is attack and assume the worst of those with whom you disagree.

    If you think the following of me, you have a real heart problem:
     
  9. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Biden is pro death.
    "Baptist Believer" voted for Biden.
    You are not consistent in being pro life and are deceiving yourself.
    Your conscience has been seared in maintaining to state you are pro life.
    You do not count a fetus as having the value of one who is walking on the earth so that is your out.

    Thine eyes did see my substance,
    yet being unperfect;
    and in thy book all my members were written,
    which in continuance were fashioned,
    when as yet there was none of them.
    Psalm 139:16

    [​IMG]
     
  10. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Exactly!!! Calling a baby a “fetus” dehumanizes the baby to allow the murderers and their supporters to claim “we are not killing babies”.

    peace to you
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Exactly!!!!!

    Calling the murder of babies “manslaughter” “if they are persons” is an imprecise allegation. It is murder. Be precise!!!

    Claiming the murder of the baby is a “choice” is an imprecise allegation. The baby in the womb is a human being created in the image of God.

    If we would all be precise in our language, the debate would have ended long ago.

    peace to you
     
  12. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    If that’s your standard, you need to take it up with SGO. He used the term in this thread. If I used it, I was only referencing his usage of it.

    However, the word “fetus” is Latin for “pregnancy, offspring, childbirth” so it is only dehumanizing for those who are ignorant of the phrase and are unwilling to look it up.
     
    #32 Baptist Believer, May 4, 2021
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  13. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Totally agree!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Murder - the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. One would have to believe the unborn life to be a human person.

    Manslaughter - Manslaughter is an unlawful killing that doesn’t involve malice aforethought—intent to seriously harm or kill, or extreme, reckless disregard for life.

    Not realizing that the unborn life is a human person would possibly be an example of manslaughter, at worst.

    I don’t think I made any such claim.

    That’s simply false. The issue is not language, but the question regarding when human personhood begins.
     
  15. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Biden is pro-choice. He leaves the decision to end the life in the womb to the mother and/or medical experts.

    I voted against Trump. I have made no secret of that.

    False.

    False.

    False. You don’t have a clue what I believe and are just making things up. I don’t need an “out.”

    I have explained several times before that the way to transform our culture is not through politics and courts, but by using the power of the Spirit and self-sacrifice to show the goodness of God by honoring life and living sacrificially in the way of Jesus. It worked for the First Century church and they had no political power or say in the government of the Roman Empire. That worked because the church had credibility and integrity.

    Of course, you can’t accept that biblical reason for my position, so you double down on the failed deference of “conservative” Christianity to the Republican Party and attack everyone who has a different view. Then your self-righteously make false statements about me, always assuming the worst. You have no integrity in my eyes. You definitely don’t represent the Jesus I see in scripture, who is gentle and full of grace, but also burned with intense anger at the religious authorities who tried to manipulate everyone into conformity with their fallen and failed agendas.

    You seem to be a disciple of Donald Trump. He is full of lies and bluster, just like you.
     
  16. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Reconcile that to your position on the other case inserted (rightly or wrongly) into this thread:

    He was convicted of murder. His beliefs didn’t change the truth he had killed a human being.
    In one case you say it's murder in spite of the perpetratorr's belief the victim was not a human being, and in another case it's "manslaughter, at worst" though the perpetrator did not believe the victim to be a human being. If it's nothing but a matter of "law was made clear," then is the law just, no matter what?
     
  17. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    When does a baby in the womb choose to kill itself?
    Go argue about terms if you like to avoid being called a supporter of a death dealing "pro choice" president while maintaining you are pro life.
    How does killing a baby help those that are walking on the earth?
    Christian discipleship.

    Thus saith the Lord;
    For three transgressions of the children of Ammon,
    and for four,
    I will not turn away the punishment thereof,
    because they have ripped up the women with child
    of Gilead,
    that they might enlarge their border:
    Amos 1:13


    Apparently you don't think you were one of these
    [​IMG]
     
    #37 SGO, May 5, 2021
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Exactly!!! All those supporters of abortion who use the Latin word “fetus” as a way to dehumanize the baby in the womb to allow them to say, “we are not killing babies!”, are ignorant of Latin and guilty of supporting the murder of babies.

    peace to you
     
  19. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    All who murdered babies in the womb will get a chance to make that argument before God, the only Judge that matters.

    peace to you
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Another imprecise statement, which is why the issue is language. The question is of the beginnings of human “life”, not human “personhood”.

    Human life is obvious. Scientifically, that baby is human life at conception. Human “personhood” obscures that obvious truth with a nonsensical, non-scientific, debate over when we acknowledge that truth.

    The deliberate obscuring of the language allows those who support the murder of babies to claim “we are not killing babies.”

    For example, when Illinois debated a bill to give medical care to babies born alive during abortions, Obama argued there were no babies being left to die in closets.

    Now, a nurse had testified that was exactly what was happening.

    But because of the imprecise language, those supporters of baby murder make such statements.

    We must be precise in our language. Women must know they are murdering babies. Doctors must know they are murdering babies. Those who support abortion must know they are supporting the murder of babies.

    We do them no favors by not confronting the lies of language they use.

    peace to you
     
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