Since there are no other groups of Baptists that hold to Eternal Salvation as different from Time Salvation, I quote from Elder David Montgomery:
----source----->Proving Time Salvation----
written by Elder David Montgomery
PrimitiveBaptist.org
Time salvation is eternal salvation revealed, and lived by the child of grace. weak definition, I know, but, with my limited English vocabulary, not being born and raised in it, that is how I can best define it.
The shortest word I can condense it in is : knowledge. knowledge derived from teaching. By ministers, by preachers, by teachers.
Eternal salvation of the elect children of God, who are and have been in this time world for generations, before, during, and after the cross, in every continent, sub-continent, island and islet, archipelago and everywhere else the descendants of Noah spread out, is absolutely free of any human input: repentance, faith, etc.
Human delineations divide them and separate them. Politics, geography, chronology, faiths, creeds, religions, these all divide them, and all these have been transcended by the grace and mercy of God, a truth which he demonstrated time and again to all generations for whom He gave and preserved His word by the way He dealt with Israel: For he remembered that they were but flesh; a wind that passeth away , and cometh not again . (Psalms 78:39).
Time salvation is gospel instruction obeyed, adhered to, believed in. Unfortunately, while eternal salvation is absolutely unconditional in its eternal benefits, time salvation is not.
Eternal salvation, having been authored by God Himself for those whom He chose from before the salvation of the world, demanded nothing in exchange for the grace and mercy extended.
Time salvation on the other hand, requires PROOF of faith, WORKS meet for repentance, obedience and submission, but not without its compensations for such.
my initial post on gospel/eternal salvation....
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by pinoybaptist, Oct 11, 2014.
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Looks alot like MIllenial Exclsusion
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pinoy, the biggest problem I have with the PB belief is people can be eternally saved without never knowing the name of Christ, never hearing of Christ mentioned in their life time. As has already been discussed, the heathen who could be regenerated by the Spirit yet live their life without any knowledge of God or Christ. In St. John 16:7-9 it speaks of the Comforter that will come into the world and when he is come he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. Of sin BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE NOT ON ME. This is the nail that seals the coffin concerning PB doctrine. This is the sin that will send a person to hell, rejecting Christ. Preaching the gospel for salvation gives man a choice, whether elected or not. Your doctrine gives man no choice at all.
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
If it was from the beginning of time (as one translation puts it) then we have to concur to the truth that even as God flooded the entire world in Noah's time, He had people among those He destroyed in this time world, and preserved Noah because from Noah, the line of the Messiah must continue as He purposed in eternity past.
Noah was just as evil as the rest of them, though perhaps not of the magnitude that the rest were (there is no one that seeketh God). But, Noah, found grace in the sight of the Lord.
And from Noah, the rest of the world was again populated, according to Scriptures, which suggests to us that every man on this planet from then on descended from Noah.
Which further suggests to us that when God wrote His people's names in His mind (what the Bible calls the book of life) included among these are those who descended from Noah who scattered all over the planet.
While God chose to record for posterity His dealings with His own by Noah and onwards, we need to see that He has people all over the world, even then, and they, as well as Noah, found grace in the sight of the Lord, as did you and I.
I think you will be among the first who will define grace as unmerited favor.
So you will have to take that up with the apostle Paul who wrote the following in Romans 3:
For what if some did not believe ? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect ? 4 God forbid : yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written , That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged .
Am I saying that Jesus lied ?
Not at all.
What He said did happen.
Who is this that the Spirit will reprove ?
First, the Jews, and this happened in the Pentecost, first to the 3,000, then the rest of them.
Revelation tells us that what finally seals the doom of those who is to be cast into the lake of fire along with death, Satan, and his angels, is their not being found in the book of life.
Because that means (1) God does not know them. What was Jesus' reply to those who would dazzle Him with their works for him ? I never knew you. If He never knew them, then (2) those not found in the book of life has NO Savior to look to, no blood to plead on.
Do you realize what you are saying ? -
pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
why don't you demand that I and PB's be banned from this site, then.
go on, I dare and double dare you.
put up, or shut up.
debate, and if you can't, then cease your drive-by, ambush comments and stuff them somewhere else. -
Those spirits existing in eternity simply need a "time salvation."
Sounds familiar doesn't it? I know it is not all the same, but when you start with a wrong premise you end up with wrong doctrine. The wrong premise is "before the foundation of the world." You weren't there.
Time was and is created for man. There is only one salvation. That salvation hinges on faith: sola fide.
He came to his own and his own received him not. They did not believe.
But as many as received him...even to them that believe on his name.
Eternal salvation comes to those who believe on the name of Christ. It is a gift, the gift of God.
You don't get to be the one who decides who is elect and who is not.
Our duty is to carry out the Great Commission and leave the duty of who is elect or not up to God. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Isa.46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
A purpose without fulfillment is oxymoronic. Clearly God confesses that his purpose must include fulfillment in time. There is no literal completion of God's purpose outside of time. Notice that he says what he "purposed" and all of his "counsel" is still not done but the future tense "will do" and "will also do" it.
Election is "UNTO" salvation, rather than being salvation or the completion of salvation.
The Bible makes a clear distinction between what God purposed in eternity and its actual implementation to make it complete. A purpose without implementation is irrational and useless. Indeed, the actual purpose of God is incomplete without time as it is purposed with time in view and thus can only finds its completion with time.
Therefore, no man cometh to the Father but by Christ and this refers to the conscious act of coming to the Father not some unconscious act separated from the human being before the world began. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
While TIME salvation demands faith, as I have repeatedly said elsewhere, eternal salvation does not.
Here's the next verse:
Which were born , not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, BUT of God.
Always said in many posts I wasn't there when the book of life were written from the foundation of the world.
However, you don't have authority to put man's choice of God, over God's choice of which sinner He loves.
You go ahead, be my guest. -
pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
Christ has come, and given substance to counsel that was formed between Him, the Father and the Holy Spirit.
The cross is past, the blood shed, the tomb empty, and the sinners to be ransomed, already ransomed.
My biggest problem, to use your own words, with you is you can't seem to wrap these facts around your head, and the reason is because it robs you of glory.
The Arminian's glory is robbed because the totally independent redemption Christ has obtained for His people deprives them of "winning souls" to God.
The Calvinist's glory is robbed because of practically the same thing.
But if election UNTO salvation is what it is all about, WHY DID GOD HAVE TO SEND HIS SON IN THE FLESH ?
Didn't John the Baptist tell the self-righteous Jews that God is able of these stones to raise children unto Abraham ?
So, if election is UNTO salvation, why didn't He just nuke the world out of its existence after the cross ?
Among other things because His people are spread out ALL OVER THE WORLD, even in that phase of time, and they must know, IN ORDER for them to glorify God in their midst in the presence of their unrighteous generations wherever and whenever God forms a local body.
Try to get your antenna tuned to it, so you understand what I'm saying.
TIME SALVATION DOES NOT IN ANY WAY FALSIFY GOD'S ETERNAL PURPOSE FOR HIS PEOPLE.
TIME SALVATION COMPLEMENTS THE ETERNAL SALVATION OF GOD'S OWN BECAUSE IT IS A RESULT OF THEM HAVING BEEN POINTED TO THE ONE WHO PURCHASED THEM WITH HIS BLOOD.
see the difference ? -
pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
When salvation refers to what God does for man without action on his part, and by the meritorious work of Christ, they know and realize that it refers to salvation in its highest order; preparing one to live with God in glory after death.
When salvation is mentioned in connection with the acts of men; or man is to perform some action to bring about a better situation for himself, they know it is to be to the child of God (one freed from the guilt of sin), and refers to a timely deliverance, or something that is for man's benefit while he lives here in the world."
It is insulting to one who posts to be answered in any manner when the one replying OBVIOUSLY DID NOT READ HIS POST and just went shooting from the hip.
Like for example, when somebody who calls himself a reverend, cries out 'millenial exclusion' when the post has nothing to do with backsliding Christians being excluded from millenial blessings.
But that seems to be the norm for this board of "Christians". -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
more on the article on Time Salvation, by Elder David Montgomery:
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
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