Nascar is back

[PastorSBC1303]

Originally posted by Scott J:
I just did... it would seem that the opposite is actually true.

Please copy and paste your words saying that Stewart outdrove Gordon.

I explained a very good justification for thinking just that.

Your justification is pure speculation. There is no reason for anyone to put any stock in that. The only reason you have come up with that is you cannot admit what Gordon himself admitted, he just did not have anything left for the 20 at the end. Stewart outdrove him. Gordon drove his butt off getting up to Stewart, but in the end he just could not get past him. It was a great duel between the two best drivers in the series right now and on that occasion Stewart got the best of him.

BTW, I make no pretense about being objective. I don't like Stewart and think he is due a come uppance.

It is kind sad to see someone as sharp as yourself so caught up in not liking someone else that they cannot be objective about things on the track.

I do not like Gordon, Johnson or the Busch brothers. But I am objective enough to know that at times each of them have outdrove Stewart and others.

I have no doubt that Stewart will be spun out or moved out of the way and outdrove sometime this year. And although I will be disappointed that a driver I like did not win, I will admit that it is just racing and whoever did that got the best of him on that occasion.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by PastorSBC1303:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scott J:
I just did... it would seem that the opposite is actually true.

Please copy and paste your words saying that Stewart outdrove Gordon. </font>[/QUOTE]

Didn't say that. I just pointed to the probability that Stewart bent the rules and is due to be on the receiving end.

Probability is not certainty. You are the one who is certain that Stewart, with a car that was inferior just before the stoppage, cleanly drove away from Gordon in a car that was superior before the stoppage.

I have frequently given Stewart his due for being a great driving talent even though I really dislike him for his attitude. You have said Gordon was a good driver in the abstract but faced with a situation that suggests that Stewart might have bent the rules to gain an advantage, you insist that it could only be because he out drove Gordon.

FTR, Stewart can out drive Gordon with a better or probably even equal car... but suspicion isn't outside of reason when Stewart "out drives" Gordon with a worse car.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I explained a very good justification for thinking just that.

Your justification is pure speculation. </font>[/QUOTE] As is your assertion that the only possible explanation for why Stewart who gave evidence of fading before the red flag won the race is that he out drove Gordon. If you want to call bending the restart rules "out driving" then your point is made. Otherwise, your contention is every bit as speculative as mine... though mine is supported by Stewart jumping out to a 4 or 5 car lead right after the restart.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> BTW, I make no pretense about being objective. I don't like Stewart and think he is due a come uppance.

It is kind sad to see someone as sharp as yourself so caught up in not liking someone else that they cannot be objective about things on the track. </font>[/QUOTE] Are you being objective about Gordon?

But I am objective enough to know that at times each of them have outdrove Stewart and others.

I dislike Stewart and am not sure I have ever seen anyone out drive him. I have seen him self-destruct. I have seen him in bad cars. But I would say that he is one of the few NASCAR drivers ever that can be counted on to get every inch out of his equipment and crew when his head is right.

I have no doubt that Stewart will be spun out or moved out of the way and outdrove sometime this year. And although I will be disappointed that a driver I like did not win, I will admit that it is just racing and whoever did that got the best of him on that occasion.

You probably will because you're a good guy... I doubt Stewart will though.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Scott, I think we have squeezed as much out of this conversation as we are going to get.

I would absolutely love to see Stewart and Gordon 1 & 2 going into the final 10 races. That would be a great battle.

I do wish they had a big time track for the final race. I think it would be really cool to see the final race be at Daytonna, Talladega, Bristol or Charlotte. Or what about the final 4 races being at those locations?

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Originally posted by Scott J:
You probably will because you're a good guy...

Thanks, I appreciate that. You are a good guy too. I enjoy these chats about NASCAR.

 

[ccrobinson]

I think it would be really cool to see the final race be at Daytonna, Talladega, Bristol or Charlotte.

Since reconfiguring Homestead, I think it's absolutely the right track for the finale. The problem with having it at Daytona, Talladega or Bristol is that the drivers are at the mercy of the lowest common denominator of driver. We've always seen drivers get caught up in a wreck of somebody else's doing, but at those tracks in particular, the probability of that is higher than anywhere else. Charlotte isn't a bad choice for the finale, but I think they've done enough things right at Homestead to make it worthy of the final event of the season.

There was some talk a couple of years ago about moving the 2nd Daytona race to the final event of the season, but that's gone by the wayside, especially after the 04 finale.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by PastorSBC1303:
Scott, I think we have squeezed as much out of this conversation as we are going to get.

Probably.

I would absolutely love to see Stewart and Gordon 1 & 2 going into the final 10 races. That would be a great battle.

Not me. I don't want Stewart anywhere in the running.

In my brief objective moment before... I meant what I said. I dislike Stewart. I like Gordon. But Stewart is the best driver in NASCAR. Head to head with equal equipment, I would say he beats Gordon about 70% of the time... and I'd say he's among the top five behind Stewart in pure driving skill.

I do wish they had a big time track for the final race. I think it would be really cool to see the final race be at Daytonna, Talladega, Bristol or Charlotte. Or what about the final 4 races being at those locations?

Bristol absolutely! ... or else Darlington.

I would seriously like to see it be a track that depended more on driving skill rather than equipment.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Originally posted by Scott J:
[ Not me. I don't want Stewart anywhere in the running.

If I were a Gordon fan I would not want Stewart around either.

Part of me would really like to see Gordon struggle and not make the top 10. But I also would love to see them duel it out for the championship. Of course I think Stewart would come out on top.

In my brief objective moment before... I meant what I said. I dislike Stewart. I like Gordon. But Stewart is the best driver in NASCAR. Head to head with equal equipment, I would say he beats Gordon about 70% of the time... and I'd say he's among the top five behind Stewart in pure driving skill.

I agree. As I have said before I think Stewart has a chance to be talked about in the conversation as the best all time driver in NASCAR.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Well it seems Kurt Busch continues to make friends on the track

He better watch it though hacking off a mans woman is not a good thing.

 

[ccrobinson]

Ken Schrader once said:

These cars don't wreck themselves.

Evidently, that's only true if your name isn't Kurt Busch. He runs over people, and it's always because they slowed down so dramatically. It never has anything to do with Busch's own driving. I can only guess that he doesn't have the ability to control his own car.

I didn't know (and didn't care) that either Biffle or Kurt Busch had a girlfriend in the first place, but the only question that matters is who won the fight?

I was actually surprised that Busch has a fiancee because my wife thinks he's one of the homeliest guys in the series. She says it's something about those ears.

If this race was an indication for the #24 team of how they're doing, they have to be very disapppointed. And, after a 3rd place run at Atlanta, the #8 team has to be disappointed with a finish out of the Top 10.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Originally posted by ccrobinson:
Evidently, that's only true if your name isn't Kurt Busch. He runs over people, and it's always because they slowed down so dramatically. It never has anything to do with Busch's own driving. I can only guess that he doesn't have the ability to control his own car.

I know it, he seems to have that reoccuring problem.

I didn't know (and didn't care) that either Biffle or Kurt Busch had a girlfriend in the first place, but the only question that matters is who won the fight?

I think Biffle's girl would have won, she was pretty upset!

I was actually surprised that Busch has a fiancee because my wife thinks he's one of the homeliest guys in the series. She says it's something about those ears.

My wife has actually said the same thing. I would guess the $$ doesn't hurt his chances.

If this race was an indication for the #24 team of how they're doing, they have to be very disapppointed

Yeah he struggled all day. Very disappointing indeed

And, after a 3rd place run at Atlanta, the #8 team has to be disappointed with a finish out of the Top 10.

True. I was disappointed he did not get a top 10. But in the big picture he is having a much better year and in the top 10 for points.

 

[swaimj]

I was glad to see Kasey Kahne win yesterday and I was glad to see the class and style with which he did it. He obviously had a superior car to the #20 down the stretch and caught him. When he caught him he gave him the utmost respect and waited patiently for the opportunity to pass him; never laying so much as a fender on the #20. Superior car. Superior driver. Superior sportsmanship. Go Kasey!!!

 

[ccrobinson]

I think Biffle's girl would have won, she was pretty upset!

I missed this whole thing, but I agree. I think Biffle's tougher than Busch, and, by extension, his girl would be tougher than Busch's girl.

I would guess the $$ doesn't hurt his chances.

I have a theory about this. Let me put it this way. Back when I watched the awards banquet, you could almost always tell which drivers met their wives before they won races and money and who met them after they started winning.

When he caught him he gave him the utmost respect and waited patiently for the opportunity to pass him; never laying so much as a fender on the #20. Superior car. Superior driver. Superior sportsmanship.

Superior car and sportsmanship yes. Superior driver? Not so much.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Originally posted by swaimj:
Superior car.

Yesterday he did have the superior car, no doubt.

Superior driver.

Surely you are kidding here? There is no way that Kahne is a superior driver to Tony Stewart!

I like Kahne. He seems like a top notch young guy. But he is not in Stewart's league as a driver.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Originally posted by ccrobinson:
I have a theory about this. Let me put it this way. Back when I watched the awards banquet, you could almost always tell which drivers met their wives before they won races and money and who met them after they started winning.

I think you just might be right.

 

[swaimj]

I don't know how you objectively quantify Stewart as a better driver than Kahne or anyone else. What standard are you using to determine this?

My reply is somewhat tongue in cheek because I cannot prove whether Kahne is better or not. Since Kahne is younger than Stewart and has less track time he probably does have more room for improvement. Then again, it's hard to improve on yesterday.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Don't you have to go by wins and championships?

Stewart has 25 wins and 2 championships.

Kahne has 3 wins.

As I said, Kahne seems like a top notch guy, and maybe in a few years he will talked about in the same breath as Tony Stewart or even better than that. But right now I think you would have to say that Stewart is the superior driver.

 

[Dan Todd]

Does any NASCAR fan out there -- desire one race per year be run on a dirt track?

Would be nice to put it in the last ten races - just to take those boys back to their roots!

 

[PastorSBC1303]

That is an interesting idea. I would probably rather see that than the road course races. But I don't know about it coming in the final 10 races.

 

[gekko]

nascar confuses me... who wants to watch cars go around and around? it makes me dizzy if ya ask me... haha.

the only exciting parts is when there's a crash... ok ok. not very nice for the drivers... but its a spectac. sight isn't it?

 

[ccrobinson]

Don't you have to go by wins and championships?

I'd include winning percentage as well.

Does any NASCAR fan out there -- desire one race per year be run on a dirt track?

Yes, definitely, let's have em run a race at Eldora.

I would probably rather see that than the road course races.

I would rather see more road course races than more parades at places like Fontana, Las Vegas and Chicagoland. I'd like to see them in real road course cars at Road America and Road Atlanta, in addition to Watkins Glen and Sears Point. Add Lime Rock to the mix as well.