Needlessly Loose Translation Choices

Should we change the subject to which lexicon (BDAG) is better, or change the subject to the right of bible translation users to study and share?

 

What does historical grammatical method mean to you? Does it include the presupposition that the literal interpretation is the usual and normal one, and only when that meaning conflicts with other teachings of scripture, should figurative, metaphorical or idiomatic meanings be considered. Give me an example where another lexicon's G2638 entry differs significantly from Strong's.

 

McCree, why are you manufacturing a non-existent issue? Do you claim post #3 did not translate accurately the Greek word meaning? Which one. The word was not used historically as "attack" nor "surprise" I get it, you like loose translations that alter God's words. I find that lack of faithfulness to God's word appalling. Scholars start by trying to discern what the author intended to say to his original audience. Thus using the meanings of the words in their historical setting is essential.

 

Trying to translate word meanings into distinctive English words and phrases is challenging. The use of an Exhaustive Concordance is essential. Lets say the NIV translates G2638 as surprise in 1 Thessalonians 5:4. So our first question is what are the other Greek words the NIV translates as "surprise?" In Acts 3:12 we see G2296 also translated as surprise. But the actual meaning is to marvel or wonder or be amazed. So the overlap, translating two different Greek words using the same English word obliterates whatever distinction God's word may have intended.

 

If you want to address the topic, have at it. If you want to ridicule, it is a waste of our time.

 

I provided evidence that the text was not translated according to the historical word meanings. What word would you use to describe that behavior, corruption, adulteration, full on paraphrasing?

 

It has been falsely claimed that lexicons provide a broader range of meanings than I provided and supported with a lexicon. But no example was given. Does the word meaning include "attack?" Nope. Or "surprise?" Nope Did one of the two include attack as a synonym of seize? Yes. And is to take hold of is a synonym of seize. Yes. Pay no attention to efforts to change the subject, consider that all the modern translations seem to translate at least some words outside of the historical range of meanings provided by lexicons. And they use the same English words or phrases to translate differing Greek words. The question before us is why, rather than denial of the obvious. Why on the one hand do they say concordance is a goal, and on the other hand provide so many examples of its absence. Should both "to take hold of" and "catch" be translated as "seize?" There seems to be plenty of on topic issues to address.

 

Here take hold and catch are rendered seize.
Mar 9:18
“Whenever it seizes him, it throws him down, and he foams at the mouth, grinds his teeth, and becomes rigid. I asked your disciples to drive it out, but they couldn’t.”
Jhn 1:5
That light shines in the darkness, and yet the darkness did not understand it.
Jhn 8:3
Then the scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman seized in adultery, making her stand in the center.
Jhn 8:4
“Teacher,” they said to him, “this woman was seized in the act of committing adultery.
Jhn 12:35
Jesus answered, “The light will be with you only a little longer. Walk while you have the light so that darkness doesn’t seize you. The one who walks in darkness doesn’t know where he’s going.
Act 4:13
When they observed the boldness of Peter and John and understood that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed and recognized that they had been with Jesus.
Act 10:34
Peter began to speak: “Now I truly understand that God doesn’t show favoritism,
Act 25:25
“I understood that he had not done anything deserving of death, but when he himself appealed to the Emperor, I decided to send him.
Rom 9:30
What should we say then? Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have seized righteousness — namely the righteousness that comes from faith.
1Co 9:24
Don’t you know that the runners in a stadium all race, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way to seize the prize.
Eph 3:18
may be able to understand with all the saints what is the length and width, height and depth of God’s love,
Phl 3:12
Not that I have already reached the goal or am already perfect, but I make every effort to seize it because I also have been seizedf by Christ Jesus.
Phl 3:13
Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself to have seized it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and reaching forward to what is ahead,
1Th 5:4
But you, brothers and sisters, are not in the dark, for this day to seize you like a thief.

The only verse where the substitution obviously does not work is 1 Th 5:4. Catch is better as a literal translation, but better yet is surprise with a footnote "Lit catch".

 

More "you, you and you" posts addressing the poster and not the topic. Lets consider rendering understood as grasp because that word is closer to the core meaning of the Greek word in the inspired text.
Mar 9:18
“Whenever it seizes him, it throws him down, and he foams at the mouth, grinds his teeth, and becomes rigid. I asked your disciples to drive it out, but they couldn’t.”
Jhn 1:5
That light shines in the darkness, and yet the darkness did not grasp it.
Jhn 8:3
Then the scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman seized in adultery, making her stand in the center.
Jhn 8:4
“Teacher,” they said to him, “this woman was seized in the act of committing adultery.
Jhn 12:35
Jesus answered, “The light will be with you only a little longer. Walk while you have the light so that darkness doesn’t seize you. The one who walks in darkness doesn’t know where he’s going.
Act 4:13
When they observed the boldness of Peter and John and grasped that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed and recognized that they had been with Jesus.
Act 10:34
Peter began to speak: “Now I trulygrasp that God doesn’t show favoritism,
Act 25:25
“I grasped that he had not done anything deserving of death, but when he himself appealed to the Emperor, I decided to send him.
Rom 9:30
What should we say then? Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have seized righteousness — namely the righteousness that comes from faith.
1Co 9:24
Don’t you know that the runners in a stadium all race, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way to seize the prize.
Eph 3:18
may be able to grasp with all the saints what is the length and width, height and depth of God’s love,
Phl 3:12
Not that I have already reached the goal or am already perfect, but I make every effort to seize it because I also have been seizedf by Christ Jesus.
Phl 3:13
Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself to have seized it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and reaching forward to what is ahead,
1Th 5:4
But you, brothers and sisters, are not in the dark, for this day to suddenly seize you like a thief.

Note that if suddenly is added for clarity and italicized to indicate a translator addition, the meaning comes through using the historical word meaning.

 

Unfortunately, the muddle goes very deep into the translation. For example the NASB translates several Greek words into the same English word, using "seize" to translate at least five other Greek words in addition to G2638! And when you go through all these overlaps, and change "seize" into other synonyms of the other Greek word meanings, you uncover many more overlaps with catch, or take hold of, and so forth.