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Featured New Birth before and Unto Faith !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Mar 19, 2012.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    jesus IS the propiation for sins of mankind, but until we appropiate that for ourselves personally by placing faith in Christ, it benefits us NOTHING! For that faith is the means by which god freely applies effectual the Grace of the Christ towards us, and THEN we become the very Elect of God in Christ!
     
    #101 Yeshua1, Apr 16, 2012
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I don't even know why you are here except it be to spread false teaching.
    First the verse you just quoted is not an accurate translation. You either changed it deliberately or deliberately used a modern translation that you found would fit your theology. Let's look at the KJV, a more accurate translation:

    Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
    --The death, burial, and resurrection of Christ was FOR our justification, that is, IN ORDER that we might be justified. It was not because we were already justified. Verse 25 is the last verse in chapter 4. The very next verse carries on the same thought:

    Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
    --WE are justified by faith. In order to be justified one has to put their faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is also what Rom.4:25 is teaching. He was resurrected FOR our justification. Therefore being justified by our faith in his resurrection (and his work on the cross) we have peace with God. It is all about faith. One needs to have faith in Christ, or there is no justification.

    God offers this justification to all. Only those who accept it by faith will be justified.
    And Christ did die for everyone--absolutely everyone in every age.
    And all who receive him are justified.
    Your problem is that you define faith as a work, when the Bible clearly does not. In Rom.4:3-5 the Bible declares that faith is not a work. You do not accept this.

    You seem to be on this board only to teach falsehood.
     
    #102 DHK, Apr 16, 2012
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    dhk

    I am declaring the Truth. The resurrection of Christ gives evidence that all for whom Christ died, are Justified before God ! Rom 4:25

    25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    Mans Faith did not cause Christ to rise from the Dead !

    Believing is a work. The word work that God inspired Paul to use in Eph 2:9 is the greek word ergon and means:

    business, employment, that which any one is occupied

    a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

    2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

    3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

    Believing is accomplished by the MIND ! And Man does it, its a work ! What do you think that God believes for the man to make him a believer ?
     
    #103 savedbymercy, Apr 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2012
  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I didn't say that it did.
    Scripture doesn't say it did.
    The only one saying that bit of heresy is you.
     
    #104 DHK, Apr 16, 2012
  5. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    You are calling this heresy ?

     
    #105 savedbymercy, Apr 16, 2012
  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    NO.
    The only one that made this statement:
    is you. You said that.
    I didn't. That is the statement that is heretical, and whether you believe it or not you are the only one that made the statement.
     
    #106 DHK, Apr 16, 2012
  7. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    dhk

    Well that is my witness, Rom 4:25, that the resurrection of Christ gives evidence that everyone Christ died for, has been Justified before God Rom 4:25

    25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    A mans Faith has nothing to do with this ?

    So you believe a man's faith caused Christ to be raised from the dead ? I don't, where did I say I believed that ?

    Christ was raised from the Dead by the Power of God !
     
    #107 savedbymercy, Apr 16, 2012
  8. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    No one but you has said or posted that statement.
    What you are trying to do is put a false statement into someone else's mouth. It is called slander, misrepresentation, and a lot of other things. It is wrong. IOW, no one has made that statement but you, even if you try to label others with it.
    We don't believe it. So why did you post it. Read through the thread and see. The only person that posted that statement is you.
     
    #108 DHK, Apr 16, 2012
  9. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    I did not say anyone said that. I made a statement to clarify my premise, that Christ's resurrection is evidence that all for whom He died are Justifiied before God Rom 4:25.

    A mans faith had nothing to with it !
     
    #109 savedbymercy, Apr 16, 2012
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    So why make this statement implying that someone else believes in it?
    No one said that man's faith had anything to do with the resurrection of Christ. The statement is foolish. Why make it then in the first place, unless you are refuting someone's belief.
     
    #110 DHK, Apr 16, 2012
  11. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    I made a statement to make a point. Rom 4:25 has nothing to do with man's Faith ! Justification before God as evidenced by the Reurrection does not need man's faith for it to be a reality before God !
     
    #111 savedbymercy, Apr 16, 2012
  12. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God.
    You deny the word of God, at this point.
     
    #112 DHK, Apr 16, 2012
  13. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Yes Rom 5:1 is true, but not before Rom 4:25 ! Anyone Christ died for , the resurrection gives evidence that they are Justified before God without Faith !
     
    #113 savedbymercy, Apr 16, 2012
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    ALL of use were physically born as sinners, "In Adam", and as such were estranged and seperated from god!

    Death of jesus provides the means/basis for God to freely declare sinners to be rightous, as jesus kept the law perfectly and his obedience allows God to justify the ungodly, but per the Bible, those who place faith in jesus ONLY are reconciled back to God!

    We can freely disagree on whether faith is a Gift from God towards his elect, or natural to all people, or else is produced by the Gospel being preached, but ALL would agree must place faith in christ to get justified by god!
     
    #114 Yeshua1, Apr 17, 2012
  15. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    yesh

    That has never been denied ! What does that have to do with Christ's Resurrection giving evidence of the Justification before God, of all those he bore their offences against God ? Rom 4:25

    25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
     
    #115 savedbymercy, Apr 17, 2012
  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    You are certainly one confused person.
    His death, burial and resurrection came first.
    By faith in that gospel message we are justified. That is what it says immediately after verse 25.

    Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    and then:

    Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

    Justification is by faith and faith alone.
     
    #116 DHK, Apr 17, 2012
  17. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    dhk

    If you wanna call me confused because I testify to the Truth of what scripture says the resurrection of Christ indicated, then so be it. Rom 4:25

    25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    All you are doing is rejecting clear scripture testimony !

    False teaching, scripture states that it's freely by the Grace of God also !

    Rom 3:24

    24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
     
    #117 savedbymercy, Apr 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2012
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    the Gift of God IS eternal life found in his Son, but we MUST receive that by faith in order to have it!
     
    #118 Yeshua1, Apr 17, 2012
  19. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Works salvation, condemned by God !
     
    #119 savedbymercy, Apr 17, 2012
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Actually approved by God, He stated the Just shall live by faith!
     
    #120 Yeshua1, Apr 17, 2012
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