There is a way to present it respectfully, and then there is the hit and run, salesman approach that leave the soul hardened.
I'm not saying that Linda did this, but I get tired of cleaning up messes left by drive by evangelists that simply follow the Hyles manual to witnessing.
That is what it sounded like to me... she doesn't care if she offended them...
The gospel is offensive, but we don't have to be.
She comes on this thread blasting away at Warrens approach to reach the Jews, then admits they won't even listen to her....
Now tell me, who has the better chance of reaching them... someone they will listen to, or someone that offended them to the point that they don't care what that person says...
New Insight - Rick Warren
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by I Am Blessed 24, Nov 6, 2006.
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Linda, I am sorry if I am projecting my experiences with drive by evangelists on your situation... if you did nothing to offend them, except share Christ, then of course God will bless His words.
But I am sure you also know of people that are offensive in the way they present the Gospel.
The Gospel is offensive enough... we shouldn't be adding our offensiveness to it.
There are right times to share, and wrong times, and we need to be sensitive to the Spirit to discern each. -
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Let me give you an example that happened to me about 5 yrs ago.
We lived in an apartment and the landlord's son lived in the house beside us. We were good friends. Even though I was a preacher, and he was a good ole boy that liked to drink some, and party on Friday nights, we still counted each other as friends.
Our families would get together on weekends and cook out, play horse shoes, and just sit around and visit.
One evening, we were sitting on his front porch.
Him, his wife, me and my wife were just sitting there talking, while our children played in the yard when 2 preachers from a local IFB church pulled into the drive... They got out of their car with their 3 peice suit, and a big Bible under their arms....
My neighbor said, "Ah man, not them again"
They walked up to the porch, and started using the FORM approach... (I recoginized it, although my neighbor didn't)
The FORM approach is a salesmans approach to preach the gospel
Start talking about FAMILY...
Move to OCCUPATION...
Then to RELIGION...
Then into the MESSAGE
Of course they didn't know I was saved, so they started talking to me also about my kids, and how nice they looked... (roll eyes)
Then they moved on to my occupation, and when I told them that I was a Pastor, you know what their response was?
"Well you should look like a Pastor, Why are you wearing those shorts instead of a suit!" Then they asked me why I was socializing with sinners.
I excused myself and walked away.
After they left, my neighbor said that Hell would freeze over before he went to their church. Then he asked me what time our church started.
He came to our church for awhile, and finally got saved...
Now do you see my point?
They were offensive to him. I wasn't.
He refused to hear them, he heard me.
That is what I am talking about.
We can turn the hearer off before the message of the Cross can even be presented. -
Linda, have you been to Saddleback?
If not then how can you make this statement in post 47?
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"It's all business with him and how to grow their congregations--not salvation. "
Do you know his heart?
You are condemning a brother in Christ that has reached more people for Christ than either you or I ever will.
And I wonder how many Jews have already been saved from Saddleback's ministry.
Instead of slamming him, we should be praying for his ministry.
If you want to slam someone, feel free to blast away at Jack Schaaps heretical teachings that the Communion Table is like having Sex with Christ. But I bet most IFBs won't touch that one. Why? He is Hyles son in law... almighty Pastor of FBC of Hammond!
http://www.gideonsword.net/articles/FalseDoctrine/FDart/forchristssake.htm
And yes I pray for him also...
Psalms 109:8
(8) Let his days be few; [and] let another take his office.
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Tinytim: //That is the problem with the hit and run
gospel... you offend them, then when others come
behind you that want to develop a relationship with
them in order to SHARE Christ with them,
the door gets slammed in our face.//
Amen, Brother Tinytim -- Preach it! :thumbs:
The word "Christ' is offensive to Jews.
Hitler killed 6 to 12 Million Jews under the banner 'Christ'.
'Christ' is a Greek term meaning 'anointed one of God'.
'Messiah' is a Hebrew term meaning 'anointed one of G-d'.
The word 'Christ' is offensive to a Jew; the word 'Messiah'
is NOT offensive to a Jew. Jews who believe Jesus BenJoseph
to be their Messiah are NOT 'Christians' but are called
non-offencively 'Messanic Jews'. -
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tinytim,
it bothers me to no end when witnessers act the way they did in your example! I understand what you're saying, and Ive seen it too much in my circles. The witnesser acts rude and then "blames" the gospel for the offense.
It sounds sort of like your neighbor went to church with you partly to "stick it to" the other guys.....if so, then God used their rude behaviour despite themselves! :godisgood: -
I call myself a "Christian". I was involved with the Messianic Movement for a number of years and I left it and began attending a Baptist church. Before I got saved, I thought all gentiles were Christians and I didn't want to be associated with those who called us "Christ killers". It wasnt' until 1974 when my "Christian" (she was gentile) neighbor shared the Truth of Jesus Christ with me. After I came to faith in Christ, the word "Christian" was not offensive anymore, because I understood who and what a true Christian was and that not all gentiles are Christians, as I previously thought. -
Then in that case God's word did not come back Void...
I wonder if I was there providentially? Of course I was...God knew what he was doing...
And I again want to apologize to Linda for misreading, or reading in to her posts things that were not there. -
see Linda,
Im glad you explained that just now. I was starting to wonder if it wasn't a bit much for you to go to a Jewish congregation and try to witness while at their synagogue....but as a SAVED Jewish Christian yourself you have a FAR greater testimony to them than any of us Gentiles. This explains it perfectly to me. I know if I went into a synagogue it would be rude for me to try to preach Christ to them there....but you are in a position to do that. Im sure too that this is why this subject has hit a nerve with you.
I know for most Gentiles that I know (including myself) the Jewish people are probably THE most daunting and intimidating group to witness to. We/I feel as if we must be very, very prepared, and really I feel like I will not be listened to simply because I am a Gentile.
I wouldn't automatically assume that Rick Warren was afraid of them, but from a Gentile perspective we figure we really have to have a deeper relationship with them before the witnessing can begin.....even more so than really any other group.
I don't know if it did, but I hope this helps........... -
tinytim said:Linda, have you been to Saddleback?Click to expand...
If not then how can you make this statement in post 47?
...
"It's all business with him and how to grow their congregations--not salvation. "Click to expand...
Do you know his heart?Click to expand...
You are condemning a brother in Christ that has reached more people for Christ than either you or I ever will.Click to expand...
And I wonder how many Jews have already been saved from Saddleback's ministry.Click to expand...
Instead of slamming him, we should be praying for his ministry.
If you want to slam someone, feel free to blast away at Jack Schaaps heretical teachings that the Communion Table is like having Sex with Christ. But I bet most IFBs won't touch that one. Why? He is Hyles son in law... almighty Pastor of FBC of Hammond!
http://www.gideonsword.net/articles/FalseDoctrine/FDart/forchristssake.htm
And yes I pray for him also...
Psalms 109:8
(8) Let his days be few; [and] let another take his office.
Click to expand... -
Linda - You know, I've been in churches just as you've described and they were that way BEFORE PDL! There were even lukewarm churches back in the Bible - they're nothing new and are NOT as a result of Rick Warren. Our church has done his study (my DH led it) and it was NOT watered down or wishy washy - it was solid teaching coming from a church that has solid teaching. Someone could take some of his teaching and apply it to a Mormon church, a Jehovah's Witness place (I forget what they call their place of meeting) or even a synagogue, and be successful with it - but that doesn't mean that Rick Warren is making his message of the Gospel lukewarm. It's the people who use it instead. So, I'd judge that church on it's own rather than judging someone else who really has nothing to do with the church.
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Marcia said:There is no love from Buddha. And there are several buddhas - in fact, no one even knows for sure there really was one. Buddha's teachings were not written down until about 500 yrs. after he supposedly lived. The story of his life is very mythlike with no historical evidence or backing.
Having been involved with Tibetan Buddhism and Zen for several years, I can say with no hesitation that these are extremely evil religions and lead people into darkness, deception, and death.Click to expand...
Of all the other religions in the world, there must be another that teaches love for your fellow man. Insert that one where I wrote Buddist... Thanks Sis... Don't see ya posting much lately. -
All I am doing is discerning Rick Warren's teachings in the light of God's Word.
Someone could take some of his teaching and apply it to a Mormon church, a Jehovah's Witness place (I forget what they call their place of meeting) or even a synagogue, and be successful with it - but that doesn't mean that Rick Warren is making his message of the Gospel lukewarm.Click to expand... -
bapmom said:This explains it perfectly to me. I know if I went into a synagogue it would be rude for me to try to preach Christ to them there....but you are in a position to do that. Im sure too that this is why this subject has hit a nerve with you............Click to expand...
Anyway, one thing I learned is never tell them they killed Jesus. They don't seem to like that to well???? I do love discussing OT with them espacially the customs and traditions. I find most Jews do accept Christ, they think he was a great prophet...
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