Featured NIV vs. ESV, Part 2

She opens her mouth with wisdom. Wisdom causes her to open her mouth.

Changing the meaning of the text is my point. is easy to take the NIV as she speaks wisdom. Esv, to me, shows she speaks because of wisdom.

As far as opening the mouth when you shouldn't.... The opposite of opening you mouth out of wisdom, would be opening you mouth unwisely. So, the comment is still valid and can be learned from this verse.

 

So which translation do you prefer to use then?

 

I am ok with either. I think both reflect biblical teachings. The NIV and ESV are 2 of my 3 favorite translations(NASB95 is the other). I personally prefer ESV. However the NIV, overall, is an easier read.

 

Ecclesiastes 1:8 (NRSV) --

All things are wearisome;
more than one can express;
the eye is not satisfied with seeing,
or the ear filled with hearing. ​

Very similar to the ESV --

All things are full of weariness;
a man cannot utter it;
the eye is not satisfied with seeing,
nor the ear filled with hearing. ​

Third and fourth lines are the same with one letter exception ("n" of "nor" rather than "or"). The ESV's "nor" is better, IMHO. But I think the first two lines (and especially the second) of the NRSV are better than the ESV rendering.

 

NIV :
All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.

 

Ecc.1:2

NIV : Meaningless
HCSB : Absolute futility
ISV : Utterly pointless
NET : Futile
ESV and most older translations have vanity which doesn't communicate as well today.

1:13
NIV : I applied my mind to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under the heavens. What a heavy burden God has laid on mankind.

ESV : And I applied my heart to seek and to search out by wisdom all that is done under heaven. It is an unhappy business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with.

The ESV gets a little too wordy in the second sentence --twice as many words as the NIV.

1:16b

NIV : I have experienced much of wisdom and knowledge

ESV : my heart has had great experience of wisdom and knowledge

 

Nor sounds better to me as well, but I sometimes get confused on the proper grammatical use of "nor."

 

According to Mounce's Lexicon the word "ani" is best translated poor, needy, afflicted, oppressed. Often referring to person of low status or lacking in resources.

The other word in question is daloq, which means to hunt, chase or pursue.

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I had occasion to look at Romans 8:7 in the NIV (1984) just recently. 'The sinful mind is hostile to God.' The problem is that the word translated 'sin' is not hamartia which is the usual word, but sarkos, 'of flesh,' 'carnal.'

I don't think the ESV is a whole lot better: 'The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God.' There is no word for 'set' in the Greek, and I think that, like the NIV, it is missing the point. It is the fleshly mind, the unconverted, unspiritual mind, the mind that does not know God, the mind that is not born from above (John 3:6), that is hostile to God. Even converted people can sometimes, to their (our?) shame, have their minds seduced by carnal, worldly things (cf. 1 Corinthians 3:1-4). But the people described in Romans 8:7 are unconverted, as the context shows.

So for me, the KJV and NKJV are best: 'The carnal mind is enmity against God.' It might be argued that 'enmity' is an old-fashioned word, but its semantic range includes 'hatred,' so I think it works well as a translation of echthra.

I don't have the new NIV, so it's quite possible that the translation has been improved. No doubt someone will tell me.

 

Thank you. That is a big improvement. The NIV is now very similar to the ESV, although I still think the KJV/NKJV is better. There is, of course no Greek word for 'governed by' in any manuscript.

 

Are you aware that there are hundreds of words that the NKJV uses which have no equivalence in the original? It's just part and parcel of the translation process. Sometimes "extra“ words are needed and sometimes less words are needed to communicate to the target audience.

 

Yes, having taken a degree in ancient languages, I'm aware that words sometimes have to be added in translation in order to make sense. However,as the NKJV shows, it is not necessary here. Moreover (along with the NASB) very helpfully italicizes most of the words it adds so that people are aware. I find this very beneficial.

 

Every other English translation avoids italicsmania. I wonder how many versions in other languages do it? It sure is a faulty mentality. As I said earlier, what do you do when a translation (say the NKJV) uses less words than the Greek original? You can't rely on italics. The whole idea is fraught with weakness.

 

Well I find it extremely helpful.