John, I share your concern (though I don't think I would play with matches?) but let me set up a scenario: a member of your church has a college age son to die - her husband, the father is Roman Catholic - (at her marriage she signed a statement agreeing to raise children catholic) Dad wants the funeral at the Catholic church but will compromise to have the service at your church- but of course the RC priest must officiate. Bottom line if you do not allow it, the mom (your member) will leave you church.
So what would you do, actually I am not sure. I suppose if there is anyway I could reach someone who would attend, well....
Officating a funeral
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Nov 26, 2010.
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First, it is NOT a matter of hatred. I would not want someone in my pulpit giving a falsehood of salvation - ie she is in heaven because she was baptized and attended Mass every Sunday).
The difference between me and Phelps is that my stand is based on Biblical principals of true love and desire that, like Paul, all may be saved- where Phelps has non Biblical bias, prejudice and discrimination, and (super) Hyper-Calvinism- that only the elect will inherit eternal life.
Yes, I do harbor (cherish) Biblical separation and I trust my congregation would stand behind me. If they don't, either I did not teach them properly or I am not the man for their pulpit.
You see at last I am Free from the burden of Sin, and it is my desire that all come to repentence. -
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JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
If she wouldn't listen, then I'd simply tell her that I understand her feelings and that our prayers are with her and her family.
You always want to be firm but anytime a death is involved, particularly of a child, you don't want to be firm at the expense of being loving and supportive. You want to take her well being into account, but not at the expense of the integrity of the church or its testimony before the world. And you also want to be able to discern what is a legitimate need, what is a reasonable request, and what is, as annsi called it, emotional blackmail.
People leave churches for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes they're legitimate, sometimes they're not. If she doesn't feel that she can submit or if she really feels that this is a deal breaker, then I don't want to keep her in a church she doesn't want to be in. But when we get the call asking for her "letter" and asking why she left the church, I just hope she isn't mad when we tell them.
But the other thing is that if that were the "compromise", I'd tell her just to go ahead and do it in a Catholic Church.
And then there's the matter of, if the boy is Catholic, then what do you do when faced with having to preach the funeral of a non-Christian.
I believe you can be against a religion's teachings, but still love the people in that religion.
Many of the people here know the story behind our church. Nearly 2/3 of our membership are new converts (and when I say "new", I mean within the last three years) to Christianity. Because we live in such a heavily Catholic area, a significant number of those 2/3 came from Catholicism. I seriously doubt they would have converted, much less chosen our church, if they thought we hated them.
If it makes you feel any better, I do hate fire ants.
By the way, not to poke at you, but I can't help but wonder if anybody else sees the irony of you accusing me of legalism for not allowing a religion that is based on legalism to have access to our pulpit. -
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John - excellent answer! I can see you put a lot of thought into it.
Likewise here in CNY, it is very heavily catholic, and we were pretty much up against a brick wall in witnessing. As I mentioned before, we closed our church and now Mrs Salty are with another small church ( we moved) and are facing the same situation there as well. Please pray for us. Maybe we will have you come up and share how you were a witness there in Maryland.
Salty -
Recently one of the young women in our church married a Catholic boy. The bride and her parents insisted on the wedding being in our church. The boy balked, knowing that his church would not normally recognize such a wedding, so they got a dispensation from the bishop for the wedding to be in our church. Our pastor and the Catholic priest co-officiated and everyone was happy. The priest wore his black suit and clerical collar (not the fancy robes) and there was no mass. There were no reports of fire or smoke damage to the building. -
JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
First of all, should we be in the business of marrying Christians and non-Christians? Was the girl counseled against being unequally yoked? How do Christians invite non-Christian religious leaders into a church without giving the world the message that we approve of false religions? From a practical piont of view, how do you overcome the fact that Christians and Catholics have radically different views of the nature of marriage?
I couldn't do it and I can't wish you Godspeed, but it is what it is. The pastor may will be held accountable, if not by his church, then by God. -
Have you comprmised your beliefs by having another religion attend such a service? If you have, then it shouldn't happen.
I attended a funeral in our local Catholic Churh because the family insisted I be there. For that family's sake, I attended. The local priest and I are good friends, so he knew what I believed. I am well known in the community, and the people are well aware of my beliefs. Hence, I did not believe there was a compromise of my firm beliefs.
In the army, asa chaplain, I performed last rights on a dying Catholic soldier. We were required to do so in the army in the absence of an RC chaplain. The man was dying. Hardly time to preach the gospel or become anti-catholic. Give the lad a moment's peace as he draws his last breath. I would do it again, and God will be my judge whether I did right.
Cheers,
Jim -
JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Jim,
I don't see a problem attending a catholic funeral (or any other false religion ie JW, Mormon,Hindu ect). In fact that may be an excellent opportunity to connect closer with the family - another words planting a seed.
In the US Army, a Protestant chaplain would not be required to give last rites - as he is not forced to do anything against his basics beliefs.
Just curious, if you did refuse, what action would have been taken against you?
Salty -
We will keep your church in prayer.
John, I tried to bring up your church website, but it is unavaliable.
Salty -
We would have been charged. Remember too, we were all Anglicans in the military in those days..we followed the Anglican prayer book...I became a Baptist after my time in services.
Cheers,
Jim -
JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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You would rather give the lad a "moment's peace as he draws his last breath", and then an eternity in Hell, than to give him a chance to spend an eternity with God? -
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