And you as well.
OK for a woman to baptize?
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by rbell, Jul 3, 2007.
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There is a greater point alluded to in my previous post.
The usurping of the authority over men.
1 Titus 2
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Scripture is the Word of God even if it offends our sensiblity.
Ladies why would you want to take upon yourself the role of men in the Church anyway?
James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
Why would you want this burden of dealing with the carnality and problems within the Church? You have enough to do with the care of your family.
In the final analysis I suspect that women will have been moved by the Holy Spirit to led more souls to Christ through the teaching of the Scriptures to their children than men.
Also, churches are public places in our culture.
The world needs to know the order that God has established.
In and of itself there it is probably permissable as far as God is concerned if women baptize.
However, it could and probably would be interpreted by this world as a kind of act of rebellion or defiance.
Can't you envision the local blurbs "WOMAN PREACHER BAPTISES MEN AT PODUNK BAPTIST CHURCH!"
My apologies to their citizens if their is a Podunk USA.
HankD -
Also, what about Godly women who dont have kids? Not all are called to marry and parent. -
I never saw anyone by scripture say it was ok for women to baptize. I still do not believe it is ok. I never have read where women were sent to baptize or that a woman did baptize, not even close, except the heretics back in 3AD.
The very women of these heretics, how wanton they are! For they are bold enough to teach, to dispute, to enact exorcisms, to undertake cures - it may be even to baptize. I am not trying to tell any other church what to do for they will do as they see fit anyway.
TT; you may not want to but there are plenty who do. It probably will split the SBC before its over.
But thats me! -
Since I believe baptisem is a symbol and not a sacriment. I would think it is importent what is in the heart of the person being baptized and would not matter who does the baptizing. Just my opinion.
Question, I just thought of. Who baptized John the Baptist? Was he baptized? Thats probably a dumb question but, just wondering. :type: -
I have a few questions.
1. Is this thread a spin off from the woman pastor thing?
2. Doesn't this 'gender' strife? (sorry 'bout the pun)
3. Why would someone even ask such a question?
4. How does this serve to edify the saints of God?
I would like to see if this "woman in authority" subject was EVER discussed/debated in the context of the church before the sufferage movement of the late 1900's.
It is my opinion that this KIND of subject was never an issue before then, but am willing to amend my opinion if it can be shown to have been a subject of theological discourse before the women's sufferage movement. I think, perhaps, one could point to the various heretical cults of the time and say it was discussed back then and maybe before that. (i.e. Ellen White, Mary Baker Eddy, et al) but they really do not apply here since they were obviously unscriptural from the start of their "ministries".
Anyone care to take a stab at this? -
I've seen "heresy" thrown out there once or twice. I tend to reserve "heresy" for more direct violations of Scripture. Since the Scriptural argument seems to be one from silence, I'm not using a "heretic" label for this.
But your mileage may vary. -
rbell;
Thanks.
Yes, this subject of a woman baptizing IS a subject of authority.
When Christ sent the disciples to go and teach and baptize, He prefaced it with this;
Matthew 28:18-19 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
We have to ask what the "therefore" is there for.
Jesus said that since all power (indicating also authority) is His, He is sending men out in that same authority.
Yes. This IS an authority issue. -
1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
As far as God is concerned your standing in Christ is identical to a man.
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
But while you are here and married be in subjection to your husband.
Things will no doubt be different in the eternal state.
For now, women have enough to contend with caring for their husband and in the raising of their children.
Men are the protectors of their women, they are the "weaker vessels".
I believe the spirit of the scripture is for a woman to stay with her parents until she marries. In this day that is certainly not practiced very much and in most cases not even practical. For these women, they should exercise their spiritual gifts working with children in a local church. Pray, give and so many other things that they can do for the poor, the missionaries, etc.
It's best to follow the scripture, soon enough this life will be over or He will come and things will be different.
James 5
7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
HankD -
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As far as baptism goes, it is simply a public profession of faith. I do not see that there is any authority involved. It is instead a matter of obedience to our Authority, Jesus Christ. -
I dont think I agree with that. In the Old Testiment it was the priests that were given authority to interact with God, in the temple, on his peoples behalf. After Christs death we were made priests (men and women) and our bodies made temples. We were given authority to interact with God directly. Being a priest means we are given authority to pray to God personaly for ourselfs and others.
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One more thing on this. Are un-believers given the privlege of being able to have their prayers heard by God. Can an un-beliver pray on the good name of Christ for his sick friend and have his prayers heard by God.
Or is this reserved for believers?
If an un-believers prayer is not heard and a believers prayer is heard then there must be authority given to believers and not to un-believers. After all Christs good name is the same, the only thing different is the pray-er. -
answered prayer is not a matter of authority, but rather a matter of God honoring obedience. And He certainly has the perogative of answering "No". That in itself should show exactly where the authority lies!
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Mat 18:18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
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I wouldn't wanna' accidentally, and suddenly find one of them thar' 'gifts' with a bad attitude, from the snake handlers, crawlin' out of the pocket of that 'baptized' one! :eek: :laugh:
Ed -
Ed -
I somehow knew it. :) Please don't just say that, give scripture where Jesus sent the women out to preach and baptize, or the Apostles who were to ordain and teach others and send them forth. it would help so much. I love the Sisters and without them we would not have much of a congregation or a "complete" Church. They have their job in the Church and there is but a few who want to move into the authority of the church, but always that few. None of us set up the Church, Jesus told Peter, "upon this Rock (Himself), I will build my church.
The SBC will have their hands full the next few years and probably will eventually split over the very issue of Women in Authority positions and the ordaining of homosexuals. Don't say its not coming for it has already started. -
And some churches that do not even identify themselves as "Baptist" are far closer to this than some SBC churches. Let's not go overboard in 'identifying' by the name on the church sign. It may, too often, not be enough of a tell-all description.
Ed -
BTW, if 'age' is a criterion, I would suggest that my own church long predates both the Old Regulars which assumed a distinctiveness from the New Salem Association for the largest numbers, and the North District Associations in KY, for many of the rest. And Forks of Dix River Baptist church, my home church, and the third oldest extant Baptist Church in KY, was around before either of those existed, as one of the 'charter' member of KY Baptists, being organized in 1782. So we would 'trump', in age, the Old Regulars by some years, and also predate the SBC by 65 years, FTR.
(BTW, my lovely and talented bride was reared in an Old Regular Baptist Church, as a youth, and attended one until she went to college, where there happened to be none around very close.)
Ed
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