What Zenas is asking you for is historical documents showing where people holding to the belief of eternal security made comments regarding that doctrine. His point is that there are none because no one held that view until the time of the Reformation. You claim that eternal security is mentioned in the bible and was originally taught by the apostles to their followers which would be evident in writings of the churches since the NT wasn't canonized until the end of the 4th century. So that could only mean the church was wipe out until reestablished during the reformation or it was hidden which would mean they weren't very effective until the reformation.
See the point?
Once Saved Always Saved?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by JSM17, Mar 6, 2009.
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Let's start on the other foot so to speak. If what he says is true, then he should be able to establish that one can lose their salvation after being saved. This is a doctrine in and of itself. Where is it taught? By which early church father? By which early group of people? Where is the evidence? Don't make assertions without evidence. Why are you putting the onus on us to provide evidence when you can't provide the evidence that they believed that they lost their salvation. The shoe fits the other foot. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
Just a note though. Isn't that what revisionist do with history? -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
Ah but thats the point of election since Adam fell man has been born in sin therefore his will is tainted and not entirely free which is why God elects. So there is some contradiction. Because in sin man cannot choose God. His soul is tainted and must like Adam hide his nakedness. There is nothing free about man. So God has to do the works to justify him. So Christ works alone justifies man with the doctine of the elect. -
Let's get back to the OP. I pointed you to a statement of faith which was fairly extensive. You didn't have to agree with every point in it. That wasn't the point. It was an example. We don't need to discuss CARM and his position on Calvinism or election. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Hey,
Let you know, I am on the vacation in Florida, visiting parents. I will right back home next week on Friday.
I want to say something on OSAS with scriptures.
Whilst myself was a securist. I used to believed two things that a person could lose salvation - received the mark 666, and if anyone removed words from God's Word, God would removed or blot person out of the book of Life (Rev. 22:18-19).
In year 2002, I learned and realized that there are lot of scriptures in Bible showing me there are conditional salvation. It is so much overwhelmed on me. That why I am no longer myself as osas. I rather follow the Bible than what men saying according Col. 2:8.
Matt. 25:14-30 showing us that salvation is very clear conditional. This passage is talking about three servants with their talents. Remember, ALL three servents did received talents from THEIR same Lord(master). Master expects all three servants to use talents(do their duty or task). When they face their master. The first of two servants did do their talents, and master saying to them, "Well faithful servant". This is the picture of judgment seat of Christ. But the last third servant with one talent. He hide his talent from his master, and being shame, and not use it. Then, the master saying to him, "You evil slothful(lazy) servant!" Then, lazy servant is cast away into everlasting fire.
This passage doesn't say that a servant will suffer loss "reward", and still saved. This passage tells us very clear that, lazy servant will loss salvation, BUT will cast away into everlasting fire-lake of fire! - Matt. 25:30.
Matt. 25:14-30 is very strong speaking against OSAS doctrine, because many Christians who did not serve the Lord, will find out and shocked at the judgment seat of Christ/great white throne, that they will be end up cast away into lake of fire. They thought they are already saved, because of what many securists told them. But, they are deceived.
That servant HAVE talent with him, show that he was belong to Lord's at the first place, but, not use it. Prove this is conditional salvation, if we OBEY and serve the Lord and endure it till the end, then we shall be saved -Matt. 10:22; and Matt. 24:13.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen! -
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If any part of it is a lie then it all is a lie.
AJ -
He means that most of the bible was written before 100 AD, but it wasn't compiled until after that. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
Those are the historical sources I want to use but you won't accept that. There were no modern day evangelicals from 100 AD to 1550 AD. Now Christianity Entire was evangelical in the sence that the christians were busy evangelizing. And It was done through what was know at that time as the Catholic Church because up until around 1050 AD all christians went by the name Catholic with the exceptions of Heretical movements. These early churches all point to early christian documents such as Clement, Papias, etc... get my meaning? You can't say don't use those documents and then say there were documents. Show me what documents you mean out side of the Catholic Church during those dates. -
There was no Christianity for almost 1500 years??
Add another 100 years and you sound like a KJVO. :laugh: -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
Fie on you KJO nooooooo! :laugh:
Christianity Yes. Modern evangelicals no. :smilewinkgrin: -
Evangelical:
"Evangel" "the gospel"
"Evangelist" One who proclaims the gospel"
"evangelical" those engaged in the promotion of the gospel. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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1. They will be saved individuals, not simply RCC type "Christians."
2. They will be known by their faith in Christ (evangelism) in spreading the gospel. A good example of this is found in the "Trail of Blood," though it may have some inaccuracies in it.
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