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Featured ONLY The Originals Are Inspired

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by SGO, Jun 9, 2021.

  1. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Coming from me, SGO, you read that correctly.

    My mind has been changed.

    Please accept my apology to those whom I have maligned because of my major misunderstanding.

    However, a qualification is necessary.

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God...
    2 Timothy 3:16

    The holy words given by God, from the first, are for all time.

    The word of our God shall stand for ever.
    Isaiah 40:8

    The words which God said for us through His inspired prophets, including our Lord Jesus Christ, are living words.

    ... the words I speak unto you,
    they are spirit,
    and they are life.
    John 6:63

    His living word is powerful.

    For the word of God is quick,
    and powerful,
    and sharper than any twoedged sword,
    piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,
    and of the joints and marrow,
    and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
    Hebrews 4:12

    The living word of God and His power are evidenced by millions of changed lives,

    change which comes as a result of hearing His word.

    So then faith cometh by hearing,
    and hearing by the word of God.
    Romans 10:17

    His inspired original words have been preserved for us and are in many translations throughout the world.

    The word of our God shall stand for ever.
    Isaiah 40:8

    To say that today no inspired words of God exist is ridiculous.

    One might expect to hear such a statement from a non-believer.

    The original words of God are incorruptible.

    The proof of that, is you.

    Being born again,
    not of corruptible seed,
    but of incorruptible,
    by the word of God,
    which liveth and abideth for ever.
    For all flesh is as grass,
    and the glory of man as the flower of grass.
    The grass withereth,
    and the flower thereof falleth away:
    But the word of the Lord endureth for ever.
    And this is the word
    which by the gospel is preached
    unto you.
    1 Peter 1:23-25

    Please forgive me.
     
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  2. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    I would like to suggest that God's inspiration isn't about paper (etc), pen and ink, but works through persons (Moses, David, Paul, John, etc). Therefore, when people ask if the "originals" were inspired, I say, "Yes, the original persons who spoke for God (like John Baptist), wrote (like Paul, John, David) or dictated writing (such as Jeremiah to Baruch, or Paul to Tertias, etc) were inspired."
     
    #2 Alofa Atu, Jun 9, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
  3. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    No poster has demonstrated from the Scriptures that the process of the giving of the Scriptures by inspiration to the prophets and apostles continued after the completion of the New Testament.

    Perhaps some are attempting to assume by use of the fallacy of begging the question a claim that they do not prove to be true nor prove to be scriptural. They would not be entitled to try to demand that others disprove what they have not begin to prove. They may believe their non-scriptural opinions but that does not mean that they are true. None of the verses that they attempt to misuse and misapply say that post-NT Bible translations are inspired. By definition, believing assumptions, assertions, or claims that are not true would be deceiving one's self. No one can stop them from choosing to deceive themselves.
     
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  4. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Two pre-1611 English Bibles [Wycliffe’s and 1538 Coverdale’s Latin-English NT] have “inspired” at 2 Peter 1:21.

    The Latin Vulgate as found in Coverdale’s 1538 Latin-English New Testament began 2 Timothy 3:16 as follows: “Omnis scriptura divinitus inspirata,“ and the Latin Vulgate also has “inspirati” in its rendering at 2 Peter 1:21. Stephen Westcott’s modern-spelling edition of the 1388 Wycliffe New Testament has the following rendering of 2 Peter 1:21: “for prophecy was not brought at any time by man’s will, but the holy men of God, inspired with the Holy Ghost, spoke it.“ Miles Coverdale’s rendering of the Latin Vulgate in his 1538 English New Testament at 2 Peter 1:21 is the following: “For the prophecy was never brought by the will of man, but the holy men of God spake as they were inspired by the holy Ghost.”

    There is also another verse in some English Bibles that has the verb inspired. Several pre-1611 English Bibles (Tyndale's, Matthew's, Great, Whittingham's, and Bishops' Bibles) of which the KJV is a revision rendered Mark 12:36 as follows: "for David himself inspired with the Holy Ghost."
     
    #4 Logos1560, Jun 12, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  5. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Well, speaking of deceiving oneself, if one claims to be born again without the involvement of inspired scripture, that goes against scripture:

    Being born again,
    not of corruptible seed,
    but of incorruptible,
    by the word of God,
    which liveth and abideth for ever.
    1 Peter 1:23

    You want proof?

    Look at your own conversion!

    Was your claim to be a "bible believing man" a lie?

    Don't keep using fancy language to cover up your doubt.

    Born of incorruptible seed.

    What could a "bible believing man" possibly believe in but the word of God?

    You need forgiveness for doubting His word.

    Not from any person, but the Lord Himself, Who guaranteed that His word would stand for ever.

    The word of our God shall stand forever.
    Isaiah 40:8

    Here is that verse quoted above in:

    the ESV
    since you have been born again,
    not of perishable seed but of imperishable,
    through the living and abiding word of God.

    Living and abiding word, did you read that? and still think it's not true?

    the NAS
    For you have been born again,
    not of perishable seed, but of imperishable,
    through the living and enduring word of God.

    the NIV
    For you have been born again,
    not of perishable seed, but of imperishable,
    through the living and enduring word of God.

    the NKJV
    having been born again,
    not of corruptible seed but incorruptible,
    through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

    the NLT
    For you have been born again,
    but not to a life that will quickly end.
    Your new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal, living word of God.

    The eternal living word of God!

    the NRSV
    You have been born anew,
    not of perishable but of imperishable seed,
    through the living and enduring word of God.

    the NABRE
    You have been born anew,
    not from perishable but from imperishable seed,
    through the living and abiding word of God

    the Orthodox Jewish Bible
    You have been given a new birth [Yn 3:3],
    not from perishable zerah (seed), but zerah that is without shachat (corruption TEHILLIM 16:10),
    through the Dvar Hashem who is Chai v’Nitzav l’Olam (living and remaining firm forever).

    The Voice
    You have been reborn—
    not from seed that eventually dies but from seed that is eternal—
    through the word of God that lives and endures forever.

    the YLT
    being begotten again,
    not out of seed corruptible,
    but incorruptible, through a word of God --
    living and remaining -- to the age;
     
  6. TurtleSox

    TurtleSox Member

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    Great point. Only the originals, the autographs, are inspired.

    What we have today are copies of copies of copies. And the originals have been changed in the course of history.

    Maybe that is why the world has graduated more and more into chaos and violence. When, according to Messiah prophecy the world was to enter into peace with his coming.
     
  7. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    You should look in the mirror. You describe your own human efforts to cover up your doubt concerning what the Scriptures state as you try to add to them opinions of men.

    Your unproven and bogus allegations only demonstrate that you jump to wrong opinions.

    Perhaps your posts reveal to readers that you elevate your own opinions over what the Scriptures state since you have failed to prove that the Scriptures state that post-NT Bible translations are inspired.

    Disagreeing with your non-scriptural opinions concerning Bible translations is not doubt concerning what the Scriptures state. You have not proven that I doubt anything that God stated. Stating the truth is not fancy language.

    Deceiving yourself by believing assertions that are not true would be worse than doubting opinions of men.
     
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  8. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    You really enjoy covering your mouth as you whisper things not true.

    Repent and believe the word of God.

    Soon will you be telling us Jesus did not rise from the dead?

    On what basis then do believe that?

    The word of God?

    Did you actually have a conversion using an English translation?

    Now you doubt any translation?

    Why do you even read a bible if you do not think it has the inspired words of God?

    You don't believe God would carry His truth into different languages?

    Yet you are not afraid to discount the conversions of basically every person on this forum, telling them that there is no inspired scripture today.

    Your God, if you really have one, fits into your head.

    He spoke and created the universe.

    He counts each of your hairs but you may be bald.

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God.
    2 Timothy 3:16

    The word of our God shall stand forever.
    Isaiah 40:8
     
  9. TurtleSox

    TurtleSox Member

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    I have to say as one of the newest arrivals to your site, the way some of you speak to one another, it's hard to imagine one is reading Christian's writing such things. :Sick:Speechless
     
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  10. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Hard/Soft/Convertible,

    Thank you for your concern.

    Yes we have been going back and forth off and on for several months if not more.

    Sometimes I am so rattled my hands are shaking as I'm typing but that is ok.

    This man is a Christian but thinks God doesn't stand by His word through time.

    I could not survive if I could not trust the bible.

    Hope I have his position wrong.

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God.
    2 Timothy 3:16

    The word of our God shall stand forever.
    Isaiah 40 :8

    ... Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved,
    Acts 16:31
     
    #10 SGO, Jun 12, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  11. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    I believe the word of God.

    A false accuser may be trying to attack me because I do believe the word of God and do not add to it his non-scriptural opinions.
     
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  12. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    What word of God do you believe in?

    Those verses I always quote are non-scriptural?

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God.
    2 Timothy 3:16

    The word of our God shall stand for ever.
    Isaiah 40:8
     
  13. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Really?

    "And the originals have been changed in the course of history."

    How can you say that and believe this:

    The word of our God shall stand for ever.
    Isaiah 40:8

    Where is it standing?
     
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  14. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    I have not claimed that any verses of Scripture are non-scriptural as a poster incorrectly alleged. I have already noted that I believe what the verses state concerning the Scriptures so that poster should know that his allegation is not true.

    When I correctly and accurately refer to non-scriptural opinions, it should be clear that I am referring to statements that a poster makes that are not the word of God. Was that poster trying to claim that his opinions are scripture?

    One non-scriptural opinion that I have referred to is the opinion that post-NT translations are inspired when the Scriptures do not state that opinion.
     
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  15. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    "I believe the word of God.

    A false accuser may be trying to attack me because I do believe the word of God and do not add to it his non-scriptural opinions."


    What word of God do you believe in?
     
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  16. TurtleSox

    TurtleSox Member

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    Isaiah is of the Tanakh.

    The earliest of the extant NT manuscripts only date back to the middle of the 4th century. Hundreds of years after Christ and his Apostles.

    It is a simple study to undertake. Begin with keywords like, history new testament tampering.

    There is also the book and audiobook, Misquoting Jesus
    The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why
    By Professor Bart Ehrman




    Catholic Church admits to Forgery


    The Forged Origins of the New Testament

     
  17. TurtleSox

    TurtleSox Member

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    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
     
  18. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Those are wonderful verses.

    All I would like to know is before you found out about the information in post #16,

    did you trust in the Lord Jesus Christ from hearing the word of God?
     
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  19. TurtleSox

    TurtleSox Member

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    Actually, I trusted on God because we had an encounter with one another when I was a Child.
    And before that, I knew the spirit as well. Memory flashes as one very young but not yet with my memory of that covered by the veils of this world.
    Those veils have not yet obscured that memory these many decades later.

    Thank you for asking. :Smile
     
  20. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Almighty God is the God of order, and He established the order or primacy [the state of being first or foremost] with the preserved Scriptures in the original languages serving as the one foundation and authority on which Bible translations would need to be based or built. Almighty God gave or laid the foundation on which Bible translations depend. The Scriptures in the original languages obviously preceded any later Bible translations. No other foundation for Bible translations can be laid than the one God Himself laid when He gave the Scriptures in the original languages by the supernatural process of inspiration to the prophets and apostles (Eph. 2:20, 2 Tim. 3:16, 2 Pet. 1:21, Eph. 3:5, 1 Cor. 2:13, Ps. 11:3, 1 Cor. 3:11).

    Puritan William Whitaker wrote: “The church is said (Eph. 2:20) to be built upon the foundation of the prophets and apostles, that is, upon the prophetic and apostolic doctrine; therefore the prophetic and apostolic doctrine, that is, the whole scripture, and the approbation of the same, preceded the church” (Disputation on Holy Scripture, pp. 347-348). William Whitaker added: “The foundation of the prophets and apostles in this place actually does denote the scripture” (p. 348). William Whitaker also observed that “Ambrose says that by the foundation in this place is understood the old and new Testaments” (p. 349). Again concerning Ephesians 2:20, William Whitaker asserted: “This foundation denotes the doctrine of the scriptures, promulgated by the prophets and apostles” (p. 50). Reformer Francis Turretin noted that the word of God is “the foundation upon which we are built (Eph. 2:20)” (Institutes, I, p. 55). Francis Turretin maintained that “the church is built upon the Scripture (Eph. 2:20) and borrows all authority from it” (I, p. 88). In 1684, David Dickson wrote: “The Scriptures are the foundation, upon which the church is built (Eph. 2:20) (Truth’s Victory over Error, p. 3). Concerning this same verse, the Henry Morris Study Bible noted: “The ’foundation of the apostles and prophets,’ upon which the great house must be built, clearly refers to the Scriptures which they wrote under divine inspiration. The New Testament was given ‘by revelation‘ (3:3), ‘revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit‘ (3:5)” (p. 1809). Vishal Mangalwadi wrote: “The church was ‘built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets,’ that is, on the New and Old Testaments” (Book that Made Your World, p. 397).

    Scriptural truth concerning a foundation established by God would conflict with any human attempt to make a translation the final authority.

    Does the KJV-only desire or claim to have absolute certainty and final authority in a translation while in effect dismissing or undermining the greater authority of its foundation hold up?
     
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