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Only Those Whom the Father Draws to Christ

Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by KenH, Aug 9, 2022.

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  1. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    And yet you deny the bible. Remember Joh 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."
    1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
    1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

    God has given us creation, conviction, the gospel. That is why man has no excuse but you keep saying that they do. If they are not dragged by God then they can't come according to your theology. Man is given the New Birth after they believe not before.
     
    #61 Silverhair, Aug 11, 2022
  2. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Lot of folk here dont believe in the total inability spiritually of the natural man.
     
    #62 Brightfame52, Aug 11, 2022
  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Typical salvation by works.
     
    #63 Brightfame52, Aug 11, 2022
  4. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I know they different, but the analogy is the same duh !
     
    #64 Brightfame52, Aug 11, 2022
  5. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Without the Miracle of God intervening with newbirth, and drawing a person, man cant believe. Jn 6:44

    44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
     
    #65 Brightfame52, Aug 11, 2022
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Just why do you think that God used the term "dead" if he didn't mean dead as human beings understand the word from their time on this earth?
     
    #66 KenH, Aug 11, 2022
  7. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Sounds much like the false Pelagianism I was raised on in the Church of Christ.
     
    #67 KenH, Aug 11, 2022
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yep. I didn't believe it either when I lost in false religion.

    I hadn't noticed that the Baptist Board software changed the combination of a semicolon and a closed parenthesis into a wink. :)
     
    #68 KenH, Aug 11, 2022
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    If He meant dead as you say then you have a problem. See a corps can neither say yes or no. It can neither respond by saying yes or no. You all want a corps to be unable to say yes but truth is a corps cant say or respond at all. Its a self defeating argument.
     
    #69 Revmitchell, Aug 11, 2022
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree that a corpse cannot respond.
     
    #70 KenH, Aug 11, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
  11. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Typical biblical salvation. By grace through faith.
     
    #71 Silverhair, Aug 11, 2022
  12. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Sorry no it is not, duh. You are trying to conflate actual and spiritual dead.
     
    #72 Silverhair, Aug 11, 2022
  13. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT BY GOD.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
     
    #73 Silverhair, Aug 11, 2022
  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think dead people can sin? Your the one that keeps saying that dead people can't trust so they can't sin either. Your errant theology does not stand up to the test or the text.
     
    #74 Silverhair, Aug 11, 2022
  15. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So that's where you learned your failed understanding of the bible. You may have left that church but like Augustine you did not leave the bad theology you learned.
     
    #75 Silverhair, Aug 11, 2022
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    if you did then you would hold to that faulty theology since you do it says otherwise
     
    #76 Revmitchell, Aug 11, 2022
  17. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    "and they shall be all taught of God; by his Spirit to know themselves, and Jesus Christ; that is, all that are ordained to eternal life; all that are given to Christ, and are chosen in him; all the children of Zion, and who are the children of God; these are all, sooner or later, in a special manner, taught of God: and which does not intend mere external instructions, and objective teachings by the ministry of the word, for many are so taught, who never come to Christ; but special teachings, such as are attended with the energy of divine grace, and the power of the Spirit of God, who guides into all truth, savingly and spiritually: for this is to be understood of their being taught in the Gospel of Christ, and not in the law"

    "But our Lord, by these words, instructs us, and would have us observe, that all that the Father hath given him, whether Jews or Gentiles, of whom he had been speaking in the preceding verses, should be taught of God; and so taught, as to be drawn and brought to him, and believe in him, and have everlasting life: wherefore he infers from hence, that every man, whether a Jew or a Gentile, that is taught of God, will come to him in a spiritual way, and trust in him for eternal life and happiness, as follows: every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me; everyone that has heard the voice of the Father's love, grace, and mercy in the Gospel, and has learned of him the way of peace, life, and salvation by Christ, under the influence of his grace, comes unto Christ; being encouraged by the declarations and promises of grace he has heard and learned, and ventures his soul on Christ, and commits it to him; trusting and relying on his person, blood, righteousness, and sacrifice, for justification, pardon, atonement, acceptance with God, and eternal life."

    - from John Gill's Bible commentary on John 6:45
     
    #77 KenH, Aug 11, 2022
  18. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    There you go quoting your Calvinist documents again rather than the bible. You need to get your priorities straight. The bible is the authority not those Calvinist doc's.

    But I do understand why you keep posting them, they are the only thing that supports your view.
     
    #78 Silverhair, Aug 11, 2022
  19. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    It is in the nature of fallen man that they sin(which is why Christians continue to sin even after regeneration). It also that fallen nature that makes them spiritually dead and unable to respond in true saving faith unless God gives them life in the Son. That is the source of life - the Son: 1 John 5:11-12 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

    Verse 12 states if one is not in the Son of God, then he has not life, he is dead spiritually. Thus, a fallen sinner must be born again. There is no other way to obtain spiritual life.
     
    #79 KenH, Aug 11, 2022
  20. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    How do you possibly arrive at the conclusion that I am still adhering to Pelagianism?
     
    #80 KenH, Aug 11, 2022
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