What is original sin? Did we really all fall in Adam?
I was amazed to see how many people were taking a pelagian position on this topic in another thread.
Here is the London Baptist Confession on the topic:
http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc06.html
Original sin
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Aug 16, 2009.
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I once saw a documentary show where baby rattlers (I believe they were rattlers) were being born.
It was stated that they were fully equiped with fangs and venom to do what their parents do.
So it is with us, given sufficient time our dear little babies will do as their parents have done (all have sinned).
HankD -
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preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I think we might be getting carried away here. Of course we inherit Adam's sin and that sin nature separates us from God.
I don't see that many "Pelagians" around here. -
If one denies that a baby is a sinner then they are at least semi pelagian. -
preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Why are you pushing this point so hard?
Just curious because you are slinging the term "plegian" around like so much hash in an army mess hall. I am curious why you are intent on absolute doctrinal uniformity to an Augustinian view of hamaritology. -
:rolleyes: -
What branch were you in?
HankD -
What is your take on this?
Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
HankD
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The belief that we go to hell because we commit sins is not right - we are born spiritually dead and separated from God. I don't know of any Christian tradition or doctrine that says otherwise. In fact, Pelagius believed infants are born with a blank moral slate; iow, morally neutral. Some here seem to think that, or seem to think infants are automatically saved because they have not sinned.
I think infants go to heaven because of God's grace; but the issue here is: do infants need God's grace? Some here seem not to think so. I've never come across Christians who thought this way except here on the BB. I'm quite surprised by it. -
The State of Babies Dying in Infancy
There is much disagreement on this issue, but I think we can ALL agree with the statement made in Genesis 18:25, "Will not the God of all the earth do right?" When infants die, we can be assured that God, who is both loving and just, will DO THE RIGHT THING.
That said, I believe there are several scriptural grounds to believe that babies who die infancy are SAFE -- not SAVED, but SAFE -- and will go into the presence of Jesus in heaven for eternity.
First, Christ died for ALL mankind, and that includes every baby (I Tim 2:3-6; 4:10, etc)
Second, a person is condemned because they have individually rejected faith in Christ. A baby isn't able to do that -- they cannot "commit" the sin of unbelief in a conscious way (John 3:18; 16:9).
Third, the circumstances of the infant differ from those of the "heathen," or those who have never heard the gospel, because they are held accountable for rejecting the "lesser revelation" Paul describes in Romans 1:20ff. Infants are incapable of responding even to that "lesser revelation."
Fourth, Paul states that those who willfully refuse to "obey the gospel" will "pay the penalty of eternal destruction" in hell (2 Thes.1:8-9). Infants cannot do this willfully.
Fifth, at the final judgment at the Great White Throne, all of the unsaved are to be judged "according to their works" (Rev. 20:11-15). Infants can not be included if this is the basis for evaluation, because they have done nothing consciously "good" or "evil."
Sixth, God is compassionate toward ALL men, "not willing that ANY should perish" (2 Pet. 3:9), but especially to children, as Jesus demonstrated in His Earthly ministry (Matt. 18:14; 19:14; Mark 10:13-14)!
Finally, David's testimony upon the death of his first child -- a newborn -- with BathSheba implies that he fully expected to see his son again in the next life: "While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? But now he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me" (2 Sam.12:22-23).
I am confident that we can trust God to show no less compassion on little children in eternity than Christ did in His Earthly ministry. If "of such is the kingdom of heaven" does NOT mean that there will BE "children" in heaven, it seems God contradicts Himself. We may not be able to be "dogmatic" in this regard -- other believers may take the position that infants dying before they come to faith are reprobate and go to hell. I do not believe this is in keeping with the God's revelation of Himself to us in His Word.
Just my take.
JDale
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HankD
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