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Featured Perseverance of the elect, called to be saints

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Scott Downey, Nov 21, 2020.

  1. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Please show that statement has support from a bible.
     
  2. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Which statement would that be, my friend?
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Rather than Eisegesis, bible students try to discern by study, comparison, context, and commentary what the ambiguous phases mean. How could an individual be set apart in Christ before Christ died on the cross? Unlikely to say the least. Note the OT Saints had to wait to be made perfect in Christ. (Hebrews 11:40) Therefore "from the beginning" most likely refers to the beginning of the new covenant in His blood, because he church of the first born is made up of spirits made perfect (Hebrews 12:23).
     
  4. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Yeshua 1 "Jesus stated that he will raise up all of the saved, and that we are sealed by God until that day!"
     
  5. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    SGO it is true, Jesus said it and Paul
     
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  6. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    John 6:39
    This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
    John 6:40
    And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
    John 6:44
    No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
    John 6:54
    Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
     
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  7. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians 1:13
    In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
    Ephesians 4:30
    And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
     
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  8. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    John 6:39-40.
    John 6:44.
    John 6:54.

    Same as Scott said above.
    Same as Scott said below.
    ...only I would have used the AV.;)
     
  9. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Where does he actually say that ?
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    John 6:39
     
  11. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Ok let's compare .
    1) Jesus stated that he will raise up all of the saved, and that we are sealed by God until that day!

    John 6 .39 .
    2)
    39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

    hmm ok.
    It looks like its past tense not future. The part that says 'Hath' . Hath sent , not ' will send ' Hath given ' not will give .
     
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    salvation is a finished work, as once Justified, its for all eternity!
     
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  13. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Great. Include a scripture quote to bolster your argument.
     
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  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Ephesians 4:30
     
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  15. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God,
    whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

    Thank you.
     
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  16. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Are you predestined to the Adoption?
     
  17. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians 1:4-6.
     
  18. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I Agree, Barry.

    In other words,
    I see John 6:39 stating that not only is it God the Father's will that had sent His Son, Jesus Christ,
    But that His will is that of all He had given to His Son, that Jesus should lose none of them.
    It is also His will that of all the ones He had given to His Son, that His Son would raise them up at the last day.

    Breaking it down and bringing in other statements about His elect from other areas of His word:

    The ones given to Jesus by the Father are the ones chosen "in Him" from the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4 ).
    They were predestinated to their adoption of children by Jesus Christ according to the good pleasure of His will ( Ephesians 1:5 ), not our own.
    In addition, they were ( past tense ) made accepted in the beloved; They did not make themselves accepted by something that they did ( Ephesians 1:6 ).
    Finally, they have ( present tense ) redemption through His blood ( which is the forgiveness of their sins ) according to the riches of His grace...which is not according to the reward of our works.

    Please see Titus 3:4-7.

    It's not a system, as one does not need to consult "Calvin's Institutes" or even to read "Reformed theologians" to understand it strictly from the Scriptures.
    I never did any of that, and I can see it just fine.
    But I can also say, in all honesty, that I didn't see these things overnight...
    It came through much quiet time and study of His word.

    However, if you don't see it, you don't see it.
    But I do hope that one day, you will.:)
     
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