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Featured Perseverance of the elect, called to be saints

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Scott Downey, Nov 21, 2020.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here a Calvinist denies God puts us into Christ. And if pressed will seek refuge in exacting wording rather than a denial of the biblical concept.

    1Corinthians 1:30
    But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    No one questions that the elect are In Saving Union In Christ.
    Your continued error is how and why it happens which is a total denial of the biblical account.
    You are welcome to your ideas of course. You evidently have at least one or two who follow, and keep posting like,like.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    But let us take yet another look at one of the verses that is used to support the unbiblical doctrine of total spiritual inability, Romans 8:9:
    However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

    Here the claim is made, "in the flesh" refers to not being born anew, rather than a person simply setting their mind on fleshly desires, thus "in the flesh." But this claim ignores the conditional, "if indeed the Spirit dwells in you." So what the verse says you might be under the influence of the Spirit of God, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Or you might not be indwelt but still have set your mind on some spiritual things.

    And so the consistent finding is Calvinism must be read into the text, because other more likely views exist.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another off topic, you, you, you post addressing the poster and not the post.
    We do not power ourselves into Christ, God alone puts us in there.

    How are we chosen and placed into Christ?
    Scripture says we are:
    (1) Called into His marvelous light 1 Peter 2:9
    (2) Baptized into Christ, Romans 6:3
    (3) Transferred into His Beloved Son's kingdom, Colossians 1:13
    (4) Sanctified or set apart in Christ, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 1 Peter 1:2

    On what basis or for what reason are we set apart in Christ for salvation?
    (1) Faith in the truth, as credited by God. 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:5
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    wrong;
    2 Timothy 1:9
    King James Version

    9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    On and on, one ambiguous verse after another is said to somehow support the falsehood that is Calvinism.
    Did God save us because of our works? Nope.
    Did God save us according to His purpose? Of course.
    What was given to us - those transferred into Christ? Grace.

    When did God decide to give grace to those transferred into Christ? Before the world began.

    Is 2 Timothy 1:9 inconsistent with the following? Nope
    How are we chosen and placed into Christ?
    Scripture says we are:
    (1) Called into His marvelous light 1 Peter 2:9
    (2) Baptized into Christ, Romans 6:3
    (3) Transferred into His Beloved Son's kingdom, Colossians 1:13
    (4) Sanctified or set apart in Christ, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 1 Peter 1:2

    On what basis or for what reason are we set apart in Christ for salvation?
    (1) Faith in the truth, as credited by God. 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:5

    OTOH, scripture precludes anyone being individually chosen before we existed and therefore were always"a people chosen for God's possession." 1 Peter 2:9-10
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    no one is transferred into Christ...bogus...
    2 Timothy 1:9
    King James Version

    9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Stonewalling demonstrates the inability to defend falsehood.

    Did God save us because of our works? Nope.
    Did God save us according to His purpose? Of course.
    What was given to us - those transferred into Christ? Grace.

    When did God decide to give grace to those transferred into Christ? Before the world began.

    Is 2 Timothy 1:9 inconsistent with the following? Nope
    How are we chosen and placed into Christ?
    Scripture says we are:
    (1) Called into His marvelous light 1 Peter 2:9
    (2) Baptized into Christ, Romans 6:3
    (3) Transferred into His Beloved Son's kingdom, Colossians 1:13
    (4) Sanctified or set apart in Christ, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 1 Peter 1:2

    On what basis or for what reason are we set apart in Christ for salvation?
    (1) Faith in the truth, as credited by God. 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:5

    OTOH, scripture precludes anyone being individually chosen before we existed and therefore were always"a people chosen for God's possession." 1 Peter 2:9-10
     
  9. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    On our calling to be saints this was given to us (individual believers who have names) before time began that we would belong to Christ.

    Our LORD has saved us according to His own purpose, and not because we said Jesus is LORD, those words we spoke are part of the conformational process of the work of God in our life, but not the origin of our salvation which clearly began with His plan for us. Our salvation to occur in the future time of our life on this earth was certain according to His predetermined plan, that is a very important observation here and the verse shows it to be true. That it says 'holy calling' means it is having to do with the plan of God for our being saved, not our decision was involved, we were not around when God figured all this out way back before time began. This was His choice.

    1 Timothy 1
    9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

    While we were still in our sins, Christ died for us (the forenamed called ones whom God called before time began to be His people) because of His love towards US. The truth that this refers to His elect called ones, is shown by the next verse, as only we are justified by His blood and saved from HIS wrath. If Christ had not died for US, then the plan of God could not happen according to His will. It is why Christ came, and why Christ said about going to the cross, saying, “Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.”

    Romans 5
    7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

    And again we are taught in Ephesians 2, that God did this for us because of His love for us.

    4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

    All of verse 8 here is the gift of God. Then verse 10 tells us He made us, this salvation process was all of Him, not of us, this is what these 3 verse are saying.

    8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

    Regarding our salvation and what is the gift of God, it is our being born again according to the mercy and will of the Holy Spirit, it is His marvelous grace towards us, and it is our responding faith in Christ, all of these are intertwined, and cant be seperated one from the other. If God did not make us born again, we would not have faith, so all of them are gifts as our salvation depends on them together in sequence, like an order of salvation.

    Everything is built upon a foundation, Christ said we must be born again, because the flesh profits nothing, meaning the flesh is worthless in understanding spiritual things of God like who Christ is. if the flesh had some worth regarding our believing in Christ, we would not need to be born again. And being born again means to become spiritually awakened to the kingdom of God

    Our individual salvation was written down in His book from before the foundation of the earth.
     
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  10. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying that all sins including unbelief were paid for.
     
  11. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    13¶But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

    Beginning , when ? notice what it doesn't say ?

    Eisegesis (/ ˌ aɪ s ɪ ˈ dʒ iː s ɪ s /) is the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases.It is commonly referred to as reading into the text. It is often done to "prove" a pre-held point of concern, and to provide confirmation bias corresponding with the pre-held interpretation and any agendas supported by it.
     
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I'm saying the elect are capable of committing any and all sins including unbelief:

    12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God: Heb 3

    The redeemed child of God is capable of doing everything they're told NOT to do in The Book.
     
  13. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying unbelievers. He's paid for their sin of unbelief . It makes no sense to say Jesus did not pay for the sin of unbelief ..All our sins were yet future when he paid for them .
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I know in whom I have trusted, as did Apostle Paul!
    I know Jesus is Son of God and Lord, per John, and know have eternal life in him!
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The saved cannot and will not deny Jesus as their Lord, as we have now new nature and the indwelling HNoly Spirit!
     
  16. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Yes that's what verses say . For the elect only in your system. Its evident we here of many who say the same and yet renounce the faith later ?
     
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I know. But that's not what I said. Again, the question was intended to be rhetorical.
     
  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    You'll spout anything with no scripture to prove it. I see nothing here that supports this your latest quip:

    11 Faithful is the saying: For if we died with him, we shall also live with him:
    12 if we endure, we shall also reign with him: if we shall deny him, he also will deny us:
    13 if we are faithless, he abideth faithful; for he cannot deny himself. 2 Tim 2

    If we're incapable of ever denying Him why would Paul even bring it up?
     
    #38 kyredneck, Nov 23, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    how can we deny the one who saved us when its the Holy Spirit Himself who enabled us to call Jesus Lord?
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus stated that he will raise up all of the saved, and that we are sealed by God until that day!
     
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