Actually, StefanM, the death issue IS simple. Biblically, plants are not alive and do not die. Man and animals die. Plants (created on day 3) were meant for food and were never considered any more alive than the ground. Man and animals (created on day 6) died after the fall.
Poll concerning Creation(ism)
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ReformedBaptist, Jun 9, 2008.
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Literal, 6-day creation - young earth/universe.
68 vote(s)76.4% -
Gap Theory
5 vote(s)5.6% -
Progressive Creationism
9 vote(s)10.1% -
Theistic Evolution
8 vote(s)9.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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SBCPreacher Active MemberSite Supporter
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Literal, 6-day creation - young earth/universe is the closest to my position. However by young earth, I only mean that I don't believe the millions of years theories put forward. I don't know how old the earth is. Nobody does. Only God knows.
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Rob -
preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Notice how children are a result of the Fall...lol, had to toss that out there...;) -
preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
editted to add: One other thing. I'm not certain how fluent you are with your biblical Hebrew but in the classes like this which I have attended there is very little mind paid the flow and structure of the unique Hebrew forms in the complimentary accounts of the creation narrative. In fact when asked about specific Hebriac issues the instructors have failed to provide adequate answers to satisfy the honest questions. It would seem to me that creationist teachers would desire to be far more aquainted with the language that the "science" (whatever that means) associated with the epic. Of course maybe this is a case of the Cartesian Modernist tail wagging the evangelical dog...so to speak ;) -
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It isn't. I don't think we should treat Genesis as if the point is how long it took God. -
SBCPreacher Active MemberSite Supporter
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IF I remember correctly.... (and maybe I don't, old age creeps up so fast)...
The Jewish calendar starts with the creation of man on day 6.
Rob -
Baptist Believer Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
The Hebrews were not wooden literalists. They often used poetry to tell their story. Furthermore, the sun and the moon were not yet created (see v.16), so (if we're going to try to take this passage literally, in a modern sense) we can't be sure that's a 24-hour cycle like today.
Moreover, the regular, repeating refrain, "there was evening and there was morning - the xxx day" is more like the refrain of a song or poetic repetition than simple prose explaining a series of events.
Furthermore, the word translated "day" ("yom" in Hebrew) has many different meanings, not necessarily a 24-hour day. For instance, in the very next chapter, in Genesis 2:4, the word "yom" is used to define a period longer than 24 hours. Please note that the NIV translation avoids using the English word "day" for the word "yom", probably to avoid upsetting 7-day creationists.
Here's Genesis 2:4 in Hebrew if you want to check it yourself: אֵ֣לֶּה תֹולְדֹ֧ות הַשָּׁמַ֛יִם וְהָאָ֖רֶץ בְּהִבָּֽרְאָ֑ם בְּיֹ֗ום עֲשֹׂ֛ות יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהִ֖ים אֶ֥רֶץ וְשָׁמָֽיִם׃ -
Gen 2:4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
In this context "in the day" obviously means more time than 24 hours.
You haven't proven that "and the evening and the morning" was anything other than a 24 hour day as the Hebrews or any other person would understand it.
(The NIV didn't "leave out" anything that might offend someone. It was translated from a different set of manuscripts than the KJV or NKJV.) -
Baptist Believer Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Gen 2:4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
About 15 years ago in seminary I wrote a paper for biblical interpretation class regarding the relationship between Genesis 1 and 2. I set out to demonstrate that the text was to be taken literally and was perfectly, literally, consistent. I translated the two chapters, read everything on the subject that I could fond in the seminary library (especially the conservative commentaries) and realized that the text was not meant to be literally interpreted.
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in 2003 I bought a house & sold a house.
First the seller and the buyer determine the price of the house.
Second the seller and the buyer determine what the price
of the house means.
I wish I'd figured out that in 2002, it would have saved some money.
I agree with: //God's word is true. That's all I know. It says He created everything in 6 days, so He did.//
I probably don't agree with what others agree with that 'day' means.
In the Bible 'day' is used to mean:
8-hour-day (work day)
12-hour-day (period of light)
24-hour-day (complete day/night cycle at one place on earth)
48-hour-day (complete rotation of the earth at all places on the earth)
Day of the Lord =7-year-day, AKA: Tribulation Period
Day of the Lord = 1,000-year-day, AKA: Millennial Messanic Kingdom -
but usually 'day' = the appropriate time
Here are the prophetic meanings of time units:
hour = appropriate time
day = appropriate time
week = appropriate time
month = appropriate time
year = appropriate time -
I believe in a literal 6-day creation. As others have said, the text very clearly describes literal days. From what I know, I believe the earth to be 6000 to 7000 years old, though I haven't studied it extensively.
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To understand the meaning of “day” in Genesis 1, we need to determine how the Hebrew word for “day,” yom, is used in the context of Scripture.
Yom has 5 meanings:
- A period of light in a day/night cycle
- A period of 24 hours
- A general or vague concept of time
- A specific point of time
- A period of a year
A number and the phrase “evening and morning” are used with each of the 6 days of creation (Genesis 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31)
Yom is used 2291 times in the Old Testament
Outside of Genesis 1, yom is used with a number 359 times. Each time it means an ordinary day.
Outside Genesis 1, yom is used with the word “evening” or “morning” 23 times. “Evening” and “morning” appear in association (but without yom) 38 times. All 61 times the text refers to an ordinary day.
Outside Genesis 1, yom is used with “night” 53 times. Each time it mans an ordinary day.
There are other words in Hebrew (such as olam and qedem) that are very suitable for communicating long periods of time and none of these appear in Genesis 1.
Whether or not you believe they were 6 literal days, there is no doubt that Moses believed them to be 6 literal days. -
Literal 6 days...but God created with age already built in. Adam was created a fully adult male, animals were created fully formed, trees and plant life was created fully mature, etc. There is no reason the earth can't be 6000 - 10,000 years old, but have the age of 6 billion years built in to it like the rest of creation.
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It was easier to pass this along orally through a poetic song.
It also explains why the creation story in Gen. 1 differs from the creation story in Gen 2.
Another twist to this....
If Gen. 1 was a song... God may have taught it to Adam...
And wouldn't that be great to know that God loves music so much his first few words in scripture was Him singing to US!... Like a mother sings to her baby... -
preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Actually I'll postulate the first creation narrative is poetry, the second is narrative. The structure of the first account is polemical in nature, dealing specifically with several pagan beliefs head on. :)
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