POLL For Calvinists re: Salvation of Non Calvinists

How can I know what? That people don't have to be a Calvinist to be saved? Because the Bible says so. Salvation is based on faith in Christ.

The purpose of election? Because the Bible says so. Man is born in sin and rebellion and will continue that way unless God unilaterally changes him.

Neither one is really my opinion ...

 

Well then, Election must include ALL mankind then, because ALL have sinned (rebelled) and come short of the Glory of God! Thus ALL mankind is in desparate need of being saved.

But, isn't election supposed to mean "some out of many"? If ALL have sinned, and it is God's stated desire that NONE should Perish. Why would he "elect" only "some" to save?

It seems to me that Election is what we do to fill public offices needed for our common benefit. Why wouldn't scripture's definition be similar? Why isn't scripture addressing those that God elects to positions for our common good? You know, The Apostles, The Pharoah, Moses, Joseph, Daniel, etc.

It seems to me that the scriptures posted in support of Election all speak of those who are the "leaders", for as the leader goes, so goes the follower.

No Sir, you haven't convinced me. Keep trying!

 

Hi Larry;

His own were elect and they rejected Him anyway.

Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Are you saying that they were saved anyway?

May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Bad logic and theology. Yes, are all sinners, but that doesn't mean all are elect.

Because that is his decree.

It is.

Because it is not, in most cases, although it is in somme.

Incorrect.

I am not trying to convince you. I am merely telling you the truth.

 

Faulty misunderstanding of elect, as you have been taught before in here. We had this discussion and showed you the error of this previously.

 

Yes, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior (I assume my feeble attempts at explaining this didn't come across clearly enough? I will consider rewriting it)

Do I base my faith on my ability to argue for the faith? Not initially when I first got saved. At some point, I was brainwashed into becoming a 4 point arminian. At some point, I began to put faith into my own arguments and pride got in the way. It was perhaps at this low point God had to humble me. Thankfully, according to 2 Tim. 2:13, Christ will remain faithful when I am not. I never lost my salvation. When I came to recognize the doctrines of grace, God helped me put my faith back into the cross rather than my decision for the cross. How my pride led me astray! Why am I so concerned for the misguided folks on this board? They are me only 1 year ago! I feel genuine pity for them.

I hope that clears things up at least some. :D

 

LARRY SAID,

WES SAID,

LARRY SAID,

WES SAID,

LARRY SAID,

WES SAYS,

LARRY SAYS?

 

Whetstone,

I sympathize for you. I cannot feel for you (emphasize) because I have never doubted God like you have (we all have different crosses to bear). I cannot understand the depths that haunted you.

I pray that your faith in Calvinism helps against those fears.

In Christ,

Wayne

 

Where did Whetstone ever say he doubted God's ability?
The only doubt in ability I've ever witnessed him stating was his own.

 

And where did he say he had any faith in Calvinism?

 

Eph 1, 2 Thess 2, John 6, Eph 2, etc. That is no secret. You can pick up any elementary book on election and found the passages.

 

Hi Larry;

Larry, truth is you have never been able to prove your position on election not even close.
I know you believe election is individual but it isn't and you have rejected the truth. What you claim about it being individual isn't in scripture. If I'm wrong prove it. If you can't you are admitting you're wrong.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Hi Larry;
You refferd Eph 1, 2 Thess 2, John 6, Eph 2,
There is nothing in any of these passages that would even suggest such a claim is true. Election is not a guarantee of Salvation. Scripture never says that it is. If it were then His own would had recevied Him. They wouldn't have been able to resist. Which also disproves irresistible grace.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

I have proven it ad nauseum. The fact that you refuse to accept God's word where he says that "he chose us from the beginning for salvation" is your problem. It doesn't get much plainer.

 

Romans 11:33-36 KJV
(33) O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
(34) For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
(35) Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
(36) For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

This sums up my view of the Calvinism/Arminian debate. Who can know the ways of the Almighty? Those who say they have it figured out are fooling themselves. Calvinism and Arminianism are models. Neither is entirely correct, neither is entirely wrong. How does one grasp and reconcile the Sovreignty of God and the freewill of man? I have no idea... and quite honestly I do not care. I am of the elect because I accepted the grace of God by faith... I trusted Christ. That is what I am completely sure of. Beyond that I have been commanded to tell others. I will know that they are of the elect when they accept Christ. I will faithfully preach Christ, how that He died for our sins, and how that He was buried, and that He rose again so that all them who believe (by grace through faith turn to Christ) can have assurance of forgiveness and an eternal home in Heaven with Him. I will leave the details to God.

Chad

 

Romans 11 is in context with the teaching on the Sovreignty of God (c.9) and the responsibility of man (c.10)

Chad

 

If you can't figure out the correct view then how can you know that neither Calvinism nor Arminianism is correct?

 

I think that's like saying 'I don't understand Catholicism but I know it's not correct.'

 

Hi Larry;

I agree we are chosen for Salvation and in your inability to accept that you will probably never over come. You claim only some are chosen. I claim we all are. You claim election insures Salvation. I claim it doesn't. For you to assume that I reject God's word is saying I'm not saved. By making such a statement you are telling me I'm not saved because I refuse to accept God's word. You're wrong Larry I expect an appollogy.
Mike

 

The whoever IS the elect Wes... This is a true statement.

Good ol John 3.16 !!