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Poor Old "Uncle Billy"

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Dec 30, 2017.

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  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No that is your spin on that. This is what cals do. They spin things they disagree with and then try to claim it is the only way to view it when really is it nothing more than your errant presuppositions. So I will ask you,

    Since when is the receiving of a gift also considered part of the giving of the gift?
     
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  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Seems pretty accurate to me.

    And this is what you do. You make a statement then immediately walk it back until it is meaningless.

    Same illogical, irrational question.

    Here is one for you. Did you come to Christ because you were more humble than Uncle Billy or not?
     
  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    In another thread I answered this question with Scripture examples.

    You rejected the truth presented then, too.
     
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Its not possible since the receiving of a gift is never considered also part of the giving.
     
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Again, the completely meaningless non sequitur.

    It is really pathetic when that gibberish is all you have to offer.

    So, again, "Did you come to Christ because you were more humble than Uncle Billy or not?" Are you going to give an honest answer or are you going to run away again?
     
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  6. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I think Revmitchell has me on Ignore so I don't think he'll see this. However, you are twisting what he said. He didn't say he came to Christ BECAUSE he was more humble than anyone, he said that people who come to Christ are more humble than people who don't. In other words, humbleness is not causative, it is a reaction.



    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
  7. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    When the receiving is not passive.
     
  8. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I see. So when a person is unconscious, "dead to the world", and a emergency rescue worker revives him, that unconscious person receiving the gift of life is participating in the revival. OK, then...

    [Edited to add: I see that Aaron has changed his original post from "when the gift being given is life" to "when the receiving is not passive. Either way, my example stands.]
     
  9. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Speaking only for those who are Reformed-minded, those who come to Christ do so because they have already been regenerated. It is the work of the Holy Spirit through regeneration that enables true humility. This is in keeping with the Reformed view of the ordo salutis. The Reformed ordo salutis is:

    1. Election/Predestination
    2. Atonement
    3. Gospel Call
    4. Inward Call
    5. Regeneration
    6. Conversion (faith & repentance)
    7. Justification
    8. Sanctification
    9. Glorification
     
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  10. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I didn't miss it. There is perfection and then there is everything else.
     
  11. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    So, your view is that it is impossible for one to receive Christ by giving Him the love and devotion due Him.

    Which is directly contrary to other posts you made about this issue (should my memory not fail me).
     
    #91 agedman, Jan 1, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So, God's standard is perfect but the filthy rags of human effort are acceptable to him, why?
     
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Except that is not what he said:
     
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  14. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Yep, to a non-Cal that's called begging the question. You've already assumed this is the way that it is and everything else flows from that.
     
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  15. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Your question was:
    Revmitchell had said:
    It says nothing about the reason why he came to Christ, just that he was more humble.
     
  16. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    It is OK to disagree with me, but please do not think that is what I have done. Reformed theology has a strong biblical case for its view on the order of salvation. If we are going to indict the Reformers, the Puritans, Spurgeon et. al, we need to do better than just accusing them of begging the question. Why? Because the main problem we have on this board is agreeing on what the other side believes. Again, it is OK to disagree. I am not asking you to believe these conclusions.
     
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  17. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    How is this different from the non-cal views?

    Do not all views start with assumptions especially in the scientific, philosophy, theology, and medical community?

    For example, do not the Scriptures state that assumptions are basic to pleasing God?

    6And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. (Hebrews 11).
    Not certain the concern of your statement.
     
  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I didn't say they were.
     
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    But you said
    So, as you do not meet God's standard, do you have a special dispensation, perhaps a Catholic indulgence, so you don't have to meet God's standard?
     
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  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Receiving is never passive. If someone brings me a gift in order to make it mine I must physical take possession of it, Receiving always requires and action.
     
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