Featured Pope Francis gives church hundreds of new saints...

Ok so the President of the Southern Baptist Convention says to someone in the next office "hey Bill - I now think D.L.Moody was a godly saint" - and then CNN or CBS picks up on that and announces to the world that the SBC president finally thinks D.L. Moody was godly - a saintly individual.

Really - the news is going to pick that up?

OR is the designation of "Catholic saint" MORE than that? Is it "official permission to pray to the dead" - what is it that is being done?

Or is this the first time that Catholics learn that a Catholic Christian was slain by a Muslim in the dark ages for holding to faith in Christ?

OR is this a strategic maneuver so that dialogue between the Pope and Muslim leaders - where some form of context is established such that Muslims cannot claim that they alone suffered in their dark ages clash with the Catholic Church.

 

You have more patience than I do to explain such minute detail that should automatically be known already by any thinking person.

 

What are you talking about?

 

My guess is that we both know the media gives attention to the RCC because it has trillions of dollars of assets and is the largest single Christian denomination on the planet (and in America) - claiming about 1 billion members of some type. More people - more readers.

If the Catholic church were instead - ten guys in a barn - claiming to have originated back to the days of Paul with papers to prove it - no media attention at all when one of them turns to the other and says "hey I think 800 guys that got killed by muslims in the dark ages for faith in Christ, were in fact saintly fellows".

I think we both know that.

I think Muslims and Jews view the Catholic church as the Christian Church that did them wrong at one time and thus their view about Christians - is really their view about the Catholic Church.

Tell a Muslim, Hindu or a Jew that you are Christian and many of them will think that you worship the Pope as your leader.

I do not claim that people who war against the Seventh-day Adventist church are doing so because they know that Ellen White was a true prophet of God - having more inspired dreams and visions given her directly by God than all the Popes and seers of the Catholic church in that same period of time - combined. I know that they do not think anything of the sort.

And I think you also know that nobody is speaking out against the RCC because they suppose that the Pope really is the Vicar of the Son of God - and just don't want to admit it.

We should be clear about that at the start.

Whether or not those respective claims are legit or not is a matter of historic investigation and Bible study - but we cannot suppose others are looking at the subject in that light.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Ok well I suppose you have the right to rant all you want. When you pull yourself together let me know.

 

In Dan 7, Rev 11, Rev 12, Rev 13 the 1260 years of dark ages style persecution of the saints is described as taking place after the fall - division - of the pagan Roman empire. Over that vast period of time 50 million or more saints lost their lives at the hands of the RCC.

By comparison - the black death is limited to less than 75 years in the 14th century.

So this means that there was time enough and population enough for the RCC to have done quite a bit of damage over that 1260 year period.

I don't claim that every year was as bad as others - but lots of time and lots of lives lost.

in Christ,

Bob

 

WM - thank you for your thoughtful posts.

I agree that with the Catholic Church stand on abortion, and opposition to gay marriage places them on the conservative side of the isle - as opposed to the populist media.

HOWEVER - the Catholic VOTE is predominately in FAVOR of those politicians and political parties that promote those liberal ideas as well as certain social programs. The idea seems to be among Catholics that the values about marriage and the sanctity of life do not out-weigh the benefits of certain social programs in America.

By contrast the SBC and others - not only teach the conservative view on those subjects - they also tend to VOTE the conservative view in real life - making a difference.

Thus if holding to conservative views were the only issue - the Media would highlighting all the Evangelical, Protestant - Bible Christian groups that vote AND teach against those liberal agendas -- only more so.

And the one thing other than voting liberal parties and agendas into office that the RCC does to promote liberalism - is in its promotion of evolutionism.

Evolutionism has practically killed the RCC and all other Christian groups in Europe - and it is strangling the Christian Church in America.

So having Christian universities promote blind-faith-evolutionism is only killing the remaining stronghold for Christianity in America.

in Christ,

Bob

 

You shall know them by their fruits. The fruit of the Spirit is the fruit of the Christian.
And you know that no murderer will enter into the kingdom of God. Murder is as far as one can get from the fruit of the Spirit.
The RCC preaches salvation by works; entirely opposed to salvation by grace through faith. It is not a Christian religion, and I have no reason to believe that those who went to war under Innocent III were any more Christian than the Muslims themselves. Unsaved is unsaved is unsaved. You can't get anymore unsaved than unsaved.

Unsaved is still unsaved. The RCC does not teach salvation in Christ alone, by grace alone through faith alone. That is what salvation is all about.

 

Something like that.

Worded that way? Absolutely, then they can speculate that prior to the SBC confession of it the SBC may not have thought Moody was saintly. They may get a few witness who claim they always thought Moody was a heretic.

The reason the News picks up this particular story is that unbeknownst to you the Pope declared that there was no other way to Heaven but through Jesus Christ. As you know John Paul II had been in dialogue with Muslims. So they see this as a way to create an antagonism that wasn't previously there. And finally the Media wants to spin Catholics as religous extreemist because Catholics teach against the immorality the press supports. So if they can lump Catholics in with Jihadist (which they are trying to do) then all the better for them. They hope by doing so they can make the Catholic voice irrelevant despite its numbers.

What gives us permission to pray to the dead is that we don't pray to the dead. But to those who are in Christ the Church victorious. That means guys who are very alive with Christ in Heaven. Just like Jesus was able to speak to Moses and Elijah.

Not at all but there is a long standing tradition of what hoops to jump through to make a declaration. That doesn't mean these weren't saints previous to this declaration. But again the News picked it up because of wanting to create greater tension between muslims and Catholics.

Now you are getting into the realm of Jack Chick. Sorry brother that guy sees a Jesuit in his boogy man closet.

 

I know you don't have a lot of patience speaking with people trying to use logic but when considering that in the tables of population in mideval europe the population in the time period we are talking about totalled 123 million from 1340-1450. Wiping out 50 million people would have decimated Europe and the population would not have rebounded as we see. Especially considering if we count into the death the black death of another 25 million people. Muslims would have been able to just walk into most of Europe and settle there without fighting. But as we see that didn't happen so 50 million is an exageration.

 

This post is not logic. It is conflating two separate issues to deflect. My use of patience had nothing to do with the info in this post.

 

You really need to go back and reread all of that. So as not to continue to embarrass yourself.